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Space Nuts: Venus’s Missing Moon, Satellite Pollution, and Space Force Uniform Controversy
Space Nuts covers three very different space stories in this episode, ranging from planetary science to the consequences of satellite reentry and a controversial military uniform design. Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson also field listener questions on orbital mechanics, neutrinos, alien communication, and time dilation.
The discussion is broad, but the main thread is clear: how real-world physics shapes everything from Venus’s history to the future of spaceflight and even the look of space-age uniforms.
Key topics
Venus is Earth-like in size, mass, and gravity, but unlike Earth it has no moon, and the episode explores whether it may once have had one.
Fred explains a modeling study led by Stephen Kane suggesting a Venus moon could have spiraled inward, crossed the Roche limit, and been torn apart by tidal forces.
The team discusses what evidence might remain if Venus once consumed a moon, including possible chemical fingerprints in the atmosphere or surface.
Satellite pollution is examined through the lens of reentering spacecraft, especially the growing number of Starlink reentries and their impact on the upper atmosphere.
The European Space Agency’s jet-based chase of two reentering Cluster spacecraft, Tango and Samba, is described as an effort to measure reentry byproducts directly.
The conversation raises concerns about aluminium oxides, atmospheric chemistry, and whether repeated reentries could have broader consequences such as ozone depletion.
The final main story looks at proposed United States Space Force uniforms and why the design drew immediate comparisons to World War II-era fascist aesthetics and Starship Troopers.
Andrew and Fred note how uniform design can shape perception, and why the new concept feels divisive rather than inspiring.
Timestamps
00:00 - Intro and setup for the episode
00:41 - Venus, satellite pollution, and Space Force uniforms preview
04:40 - Venus as Earth’s twin and why it has no moon
08:21 - Modeling a missing Venusian moon
09:20 - Gravitational tug-of-war and moon migration toward Venus
11:44 - Conditions for a moon to survive around Venus
12:43 - Possible traces of an ancient moon impact
16:06 - Satellite pollution from reentering spacecraft
17:16 - Starlink reentries and atmospheric contamination
18:14 - ESA’s jet chase of reentering Cluster spacecraft
20:06 - Observing Tango and Samba during controlled reentry
21:45 - Why the atmospheric consequences could become controversial
23:12 - Wood as a potentially more benign spacecraft material
24:16 - Space Force uniforms and the first visual reaction
25:34 - Starship Troopers and deliberate fascist design cues
27:29 - Why the proposed uniforms feel unsettling
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00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Andrew Dunkley: Hi there. Thanks for joining us. This is
00:00:02 --> 00:00:04 Space Nuts, where we talk astronomy and space
00:00:04 --> 00:00:07 science and dogs and cats living together and
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 just about anything, really. There's no topic
00:00:10 --> 00:00:13 that is, uh, ever, um, ignored.
00:00:14 --> 00:00:16 Even when you don't want us to talk about it,
00:00:16 --> 00:00:17 we'll talk about it.
00:00:17 --> 00:00:19 Actually, we've got one of those storeys in
00:00:19 --> 00:00:21 this episode. Uh, not the first one, though,
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 because we're going to discuss Venus. Now, in
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 many ways, Venus is just like Earth, except
00:00:27 --> 00:00:30 for one striking difference. Aside from the
00:00:30 --> 00:00:33 weather, it doesn't have a moon. Why not?
00:00:33 --> 00:00:35 Well, um, yeah, there's probably a very
00:00:35 --> 00:00:38 dark reason for that. Uh, satellite
00:00:38 --> 00:00:40 pollution. Uh, we're not talking about
00:00:40 --> 00:00:43 satellites in orbit polluting, uh, our
00:00:43 --> 00:00:45 skies and making life for astronomers very
00:00:45 --> 00:00:47 difficult. We're talking about when they come
00:00:47 --> 00:00:49 back into the atmosphere and literally
00:00:50 --> 00:00:53 pollute our, uh, atmosphere. We'll see
00:00:53 --> 00:00:54 what's going on there.
00:00:54 --> 00:00:57 And the United States Space
00:00:57 --> 00:01:00 Force uniforms have been unveiled. At
00:01:00 --> 00:01:02 least one concept, and it's got some tongues
00:01:02 --> 00:01:05 wagging, some wiggling and some people
00:01:05 --> 00:01:07 scratching their heads. We'll talk about all
00:01:07 --> 00:01:09 of that on this episode of space nuts.
00:01:09 --> 00:01:12 Professor Fred Watson: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.
00:01:12 --> 00:01:15 10, 9. Ignition
00:01:15 --> 00:01:16 sequence start.
00:01:16 --> 00:01:17 Professor Fred Watson: Space nuts.
00:01:17 --> 00:01:20 Professor Fred Watson: 5, 4, 3, 2. 1, 2, 3, 4,
00:01:20 --> 00:01:22 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
00:01:22 --> 00:01:23 Andrew Dunkley: Space nuts.
00:01:23 --> 00:01:25 Professor Fred Watson: Astronauts report it feels good.
00:01:26 --> 00:01:28 Andrew Dunkley: And he's back. Once again, it's Professor
00:01:28 --> 00:01:29 Fred Watson Watson, Astronomer at large.
00:01:29 --> 00:01:30 Hello, Fred Watson.
00:01:31 --> 00:01:34 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, hello, Andrew. You mean we're not going
00:01:34 --> 00:01:36 to cover migraines again this week or.
00:01:36 --> 00:01:39 Andrew Dunkley: Why not? We can do that if you like. We've
00:01:39 --> 00:01:40 talked about that before.
00:01:40 --> 00:01:41 Professor Fred Watson: Um, yeah, yeah, we did.
00:01:42 --> 00:01:44 Andrew Dunkley: I mean, we've reached that age where the
00:01:44 --> 00:01:47 first topic, because I'm the captain of
00:01:47 --> 00:01:50 the veteran golfers at our local
00:01:50 --> 00:01:52 club and, um,
00:01:53 --> 00:01:55 the first topic, whenever you sit down, is,
00:01:55 --> 00:01:58 um, your health. And what have you had done
00:01:58 --> 00:01:59 this week?
00:02:00 --> 00:02:02 Professor Fred Watson: Well, yes, I'm sure that's right,
00:02:03 --> 00:02:05 because I'm a little bit older than you, my
00:02:05 --> 00:02:07 topics are even more interesting. So I was at
00:02:07 --> 00:02:08 a presentation last night where they were
00:02:08 --> 00:02:11 talking about coffins, uh, made out of
00:02:11 --> 00:02:12 mushroom fibre.
00:02:12 --> 00:02:13 Andrew Dunkley: Oh, my goodness. Yeah,
00:02:15 --> 00:02:17 okay, that is different.
00:02:17 --> 00:02:19 Professor Fred Watson: It's different. Yeah, different. But
00:02:19 --> 00:02:20 apparently it works.
00:02:20 --> 00:02:22 Andrew Dunkley: Well, it'd be a lot cheaper, wouldn't it?
00:02:22 --> 00:02:24 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, they don't last very long. Two days, I
00:02:24 --> 00:02:25 think, is the time it takes to decay.
00:02:26 --> 00:02:26 Andrew Dunkley: Wow.
00:02:26 --> 00:02:28 Professor Fred Watson: No, actually, I think it might be a bit
00:02:28 --> 00:02:29 longer than that.
00:02:29 --> 00:02:29 Professor Fred Watson: Very.
00:02:29 --> 00:02:32 Professor Fred Watson: Ah, interesting presentation, though, on, um,
00:02:33 --> 00:02:35 the. From the Symbioscene
00:02:36 --> 00:02:38 Institute, uh, which is looking
00:02:38 --> 00:02:41 at the ways that humankind can live
00:02:41 --> 00:02:44 more comfortably with its own planet
00:02:44 --> 00:02:47 rather than being the terrible Colonial
00:02:48 --> 00:02:50 um, species that we've been to date.
00:02:50 --> 00:02:52 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. The problem with that is you've got to
00:02:52 --> 00:02:53 get everyone to agree.
00:02:54 --> 00:02:57 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, exactly. That was going to be my
00:02:57 --> 00:02:59 point which I never really got to raise.
00:03:01 --> 00:03:03 Andrew Dunkley: People come up with all these wonderful ideas
00:03:03 --> 00:03:06 about how we can do things right. But, and
00:03:06 --> 00:03:08 you know, some countries will go, well, you
00:03:08 --> 00:03:11 know, we don't want to do that. So we're not.
00:03:11 --> 00:03:14 Professor Fred Watson: So I think um, just as, as an idea though and
00:03:14 --> 00:03:16 as a concept, I think this has
00:03:17 --> 00:03:20 much to uh, um, approve
00:03:20 --> 00:03:23 of and it, and the reason what took me
00:03:23 --> 00:03:25 there was um. Marnie was part of a panel
00:03:25 --> 00:03:27 discussion yesterday.
00:03:28 --> 00:03:31 Excuse me, I'm sorry, sorry Marnie, I sneezed
00:03:31 --> 00:03:34 in the middle of your promo there. She was
00:03:34 --> 00:03:36 part of a panel discussion, uh, which one of
00:03:36 --> 00:03:38 the other guests was, was an
00:03:38 --> 00:03:40 advocate, in fact the founder of the
00:03:40 --> 00:03:42 Symbiosine Institute.
00:03:43 --> 00:03:46 Andrew Dunkley: Well I think if you go to um,
00:03:47 --> 00:03:49 try to make those kinds of changes in
00:03:50 --> 00:03:52 the psyche of humanity, it's going to be
00:03:52 --> 00:03:55 a multi generational approach.
00:03:55 --> 00:03:57 It's not going to be something we all just go
00:03:57 --> 00:04:00 to do the next day. Okay, we're
00:04:00 --> 00:04:03 now doing this. It just wouldn't
00:04:03 --> 00:04:04 happen.
00:04:04 --> 00:04:06 Professor Fred Watson: No, you're right, humans don't work that way.
00:04:06 --> 00:04:09 But uh, hopefully with
00:04:09 --> 00:04:12 enough panic from climate
00:04:12 --> 00:04:15 change, some things will change.
00:04:15 --> 00:04:18 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, certainly needs to happen that way.
00:04:18 --> 00:04:19 Professor Fred Watson: Indeed.
00:04:19 --> 00:04:20 Andrew Dunkley: Shall we get down to business?
00:04:21 --> 00:04:22 Professor Fred Watson: Well, why not?
00:04:22 --> 00:04:25 Andrew Dunkley: All right, our very first question uh,
00:04:25 --> 00:04:28 is focusing um, on our uh,
00:04:28 --> 00:04:31 twin planet. Um, when we say twin,
00:04:31 --> 00:04:33 we're the good twin, it's the evil twin.
00:04:33 --> 00:04:36 We're talking about Venus. Uh, I mean
00:04:36 --> 00:04:39 size wise it's similar to Earth. In fact
00:04:39 --> 00:04:41 everything about it is similar to Earth.
00:04:41 --> 00:04:43 Size, mass, gravity, that kind of thing.
00:04:43 --> 00:04:46 Except it's got a God awful
00:04:46 --> 00:04:49 weather pattern and it doesn't have a
00:04:49 --> 00:04:51 moon. And that's the subject of this
00:04:51 --> 00:04:53 particular storey because they're trying to
00:04:53 --> 00:04:54 figure out why.
00:04:55 --> 00:04:58 Professor Fred Watson: Indeed. That's right. Uh, yes. Often referred
00:04:58 --> 00:05:01 to as Earth's ugly sister because of all the
00:05:01 --> 00:05:02 things that you've mentioned, the
00:05:02 --> 00:05:05 similarities and um, as we're
00:05:05 --> 00:05:07 recording it's very prominent in our evening
00:05:07 --> 00:05:10 skies at the moment. Really can't fail to see
00:05:10 --> 00:05:13 the planet Venus as it uh, approaches its
00:05:13 --> 00:05:15 greatest distance from the sun. Greatest
00:05:15 --> 00:05:17 angular distance from the sun. In fact it may
00:05:17 --> 00:05:19 even have passed it. I've kind of lost track
00:05:19 --> 00:05:22 with my confinement to hospitals and things
00:05:22 --> 00:05:24 of that sort recently. Uh, but it is still
00:05:24 --> 00:05:26 very spectacular in the evening sky. Anyway,
00:05:26 --> 00:05:29 a planet about the size of ours, uh,
00:05:29 --> 00:05:32 of which we know a lot um, thanks
00:05:32 --> 00:05:34 to orbiting spacecraft which have Carried
00:05:34 --> 00:05:37 with them radar, uh, uh, equipment in
00:05:37 --> 00:05:39 order to be able to map m the surface.
00:05:39 --> 00:05:42 Because the atmosphere of course is largely
00:05:42 --> 00:05:44 opaque, uh you can penetrate the
00:05:44 --> 00:05:47 atmosphere down to surface in infrared. That
00:05:47 --> 00:05:49 was done actually by one of my former
00:05:49 --> 00:05:51 colleagues at the Anglo Australian Telescope,
00:05:51 --> 00:05:54 David Allen, back in the 1990s I
00:05:54 --> 00:05:57 think, or maybe 1980s using infrared
00:05:57 --> 00:05:59 uh radiation managed to see the surface of
00:05:59 --> 00:06:02 Venus which is quite a uh, spectacular
00:06:02 --> 00:06:05 outcome. Um, but the best way to do it
00:06:05 --> 00:06:06 is with radar and from that we can see the
00:06:06 --> 00:06:07 topography.
00:06:07 --> 00:06:10 This jury I think is still out on whether
00:06:10 --> 00:06:13 uh Venus has plate tectonics because we see
00:06:13 --> 00:06:16 conflicting results. Uh, but
00:06:16 --> 00:06:18 the one thing that we do know for absolute
00:06:18 --> 00:06:21 certain uh, is that it doesn't have a moon.
00:06:21 --> 00:06:24 Um, uh, Mercury and Venus, the only two
00:06:24 --> 00:06:26 planets in the solar system that do not
00:06:26 --> 00:06:29 have satellites, at least do not have
00:06:29 --> 00:06:32 natural satellites. Um
00:06:33 --> 00:06:36 so the question that you would ask as a
00:06:36 --> 00:06:39 scientist is that significant is
00:06:39 --> 00:06:41 that um, you know, is
00:06:41 --> 00:06:44 it just happen, just the fact that
00:06:44 --> 00:06:47 the planet happens not to have a moon
00:06:47 --> 00:06:50 or whether it is a uh,
00:06:50 --> 00:06:53 situation where Venus once did have a
00:06:53 --> 00:06:56 moon. Um, given that moons are pretty common
00:06:56 --> 00:06:58 throughout the solar system, perhaps uh,
00:06:58 --> 00:07:00 there was a similar formation event to the
00:07:00 --> 00:07:03 event that formed our moon when uh, Theia,
00:07:03 --> 00:07:06 the object size of Mars clouted the Earth in
00:07:06 --> 00:07:09 the early history of the solar system and
00:07:09 --> 00:07:11 eventually that coalesced to form the moon
00:07:11 --> 00:07:14 which uh, both way. I read a headline not
00:07:14 --> 00:07:16 very long ago that looks as though that
00:07:16 --> 00:07:18 formation of the moon from that debris cloud
00:07:18 --> 00:07:20 might have happened very very quickly. And I
00:07:20 --> 00:07:22 can't remember how quickly it was but it was
00:07:22 --> 00:07:25 surprisingly quickly. You might have seen
00:07:25 --> 00:07:26 that too I
00:07:26 --> 00:07:28 Andrew Dunkley: think uh, Jonty and I did actually do that
00:07:28 --> 00:07:28 Storey.
00:07:28 --> 00:07:29 Professor Fred Watson: Okay, great.
00:07:30 --> 00:07:32 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, um, so uh,
00:07:33 --> 00:07:35 yeah I was trying to find it actually through
00:07:35 --> 00:07:37 my notes. M seen my notes.
00:07:38 --> 00:07:40 These are all past episodes, all my notes.
00:07:41 --> 00:07:43 Professor Fred Watson: But I could have nicely filed Ye
00:07:44 --> 00:07:46 Andrew Dunkley: it's just a neat pile. It's not file
00:07:48 --> 00:07:50 uh, but um, I couldn't find it. But yeah, I
00:07:50 --> 00:07:52 was trying to remember what we did about
00:07:52 --> 00:07:54 Venus previously and that was it.
00:07:54 --> 00:07:57 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, okay. Anyway,
00:07:57 --> 00:07:59 um, yes, so Venus may have had the same
00:08:00 --> 00:08:02 experience. Uh what uh,
00:08:03 --> 00:08:05 would have happened though if uh, Venus had
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 had a moon? Why isn't it there now? And
00:08:08 --> 00:08:10 so this is the uh
00:08:11 --> 00:08:14 thesis of ah, a group of scientists
00:08:14 --> 00:08:17 um led by um, Stephen Cain who's at
00:08:17 --> 00:08:20 the University of California Riverside. Uh
00:08:20 --> 00:08:22 he uh and his colleagues
00:08:22 --> 00:08:25 have looked to see you know
00:08:26 --> 00:08:29 what might have happened had Venus had
00:08:29 --> 00:08:31 a moon. So it's all done by modelling of
00:08:31 --> 00:08:33 course, um,
00:08:34 --> 00:08:37 their Comments more or less, as we've just
00:08:37 --> 00:08:39 related, uh, this is a comment from Stephen.
00:08:40 --> 00:08:42 Venus undoubtedly experienced large impacts
00:08:42 --> 00:08:45 just as as Earth has and so has had
00:08:45 --> 00:08:48 m as much if not more opportunity to form
00:08:48 --> 00:08:50 a moon similar to what we see in our own
00:08:50 --> 00:08:50 skies.
00:08:51 --> 00:08:54 So, all right, put a moon there in your
00:08:54 --> 00:08:57 modelling um, and see
00:08:57 --> 00:09:00 what happens. And this is the
00:09:00 --> 00:09:02 interesting bit because um,
00:09:02 --> 00:09:05 there is a really very neat
00:09:05 --> 00:09:07 explanation for why Venus doesn't have a
00:09:07 --> 00:09:10 moon. That comes almost straight
00:09:10 --> 00:09:13 out of the modelling. Uh, and it's all about
00:09:14 --> 00:09:16 what the they describe as the gravitational
00:09:16 --> 00:09:18 tug of war between Venus, a
00:09:18 --> 00:09:21 hypothetical moon and the sun. And
00:09:21 --> 00:09:24 if you track this over billions of years,
00:09:25 --> 00:09:27 what you get is a situation
00:09:29 --> 00:09:32 opposite to what we've got on um,
00:09:32 --> 00:09:34 planet Earth. And that is that
00:09:34 --> 00:09:37 the laws of physics dictate uh, that
00:09:37 --> 00:09:39 because um, there is
00:09:40 --> 00:09:42 basically an impulse given to the moon
00:09:43 --> 00:09:45 from the Earth's rotation slowing down,
00:09:46 --> 00:09:48 uh, it means the moon is drifting away from
00:09:48 --> 00:09:51 Earth. And that's um, something we've
00:09:51 --> 00:09:53 talked about, it's well known, well
00:09:53 --> 00:09:56 established, one of those phenomena that
00:09:56 --> 00:09:59 we recognise as being scientific facts.
00:09:59 --> 00:10:02 But uh, what they
00:10:02 --> 00:10:04 found, what these researchers found when they
00:10:04 --> 00:10:07 put the same sort of analysis into Venus and
00:10:07 --> 00:10:10 a moon, uh, the moon would go the other way.
00:10:10 --> 00:10:13 Uh, it would basically eventually,
00:10:14 --> 00:10:17 um, it would start to drift
00:10:17 --> 00:10:19 inwards towards Venus
00:10:20 --> 00:10:22 and spiral towards the
00:10:22 --> 00:10:25 planet, eventually passing within the
00:10:25 --> 00:10:28 Roche limit, which is where you can't have
00:10:28 --> 00:10:31 something uh, staying together because of the
00:10:31 --> 00:10:33 competing gravitational pull on one side and
00:10:33 --> 00:10:36 the other what we call the tidal effect.
00:10:37 --> 00:10:39 So it would break up, um, and
00:10:40 --> 00:10:43 uh, even a
00:10:43 --> 00:10:46 big moon, uh, would not
00:10:46 --> 00:10:47 necessarily survive.
00:10:47 --> 00:10:50 Uh, in fact one of the comments that Stephen
00:10:50 --> 00:10:53 Kane makes is an interesting aspect is that a
00:10:53 --> 00:10:56 heavier moon is destroyed faster since
00:10:56 --> 00:10:58 a massive moon would drain Venus's spin so
00:10:58 --> 00:11:01 efficiently that it hastens its destruction.
00:11:02 --> 00:11:05 Uh, and so um, that
00:11:05 --> 00:11:08 is the basic outcome of
00:11:08 --> 00:11:10 this work. I um, think
00:11:12 --> 00:11:14 in uh, fact I'm sure that they looked
00:11:14 --> 00:11:17 at a whole variety these
00:11:17 --> 00:11:20 researchers of different scenarios. Uh,
00:11:20 --> 00:11:22 and one of the questions they addressed was
00:11:23 --> 00:11:25 are there any circumstances under which a
00:11:25 --> 00:11:28 Venusian m moon could actually survive?
00:11:29 --> 00:11:32 And the comments that Stephen, uh, Kane made
00:11:32 --> 00:11:34 on this are uh, survival came down to two
00:11:34 --> 00:11:37 main things. Venus had to be
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39 spinning fast when the moon formed
00:11:40 --> 00:11:43 with a day shorter than about 12 hours. And
00:11:43 --> 00:11:45 the moon couldn't be too massive up to
00:11:45 --> 00:11:48 roughly the mass of our own moon. In that
00:11:48 --> 00:11:50 narrow window, the moon migrates outwards and
00:11:50 --> 00:11:53 stabilises much as the Earth did. Outside
00:11:53 --> 00:11:56 that range, the moon is unfortunately
00:11:56 --> 00:11:58 doomed to be consumed by Venus.
00:11:59 --> 00:12:01 So a Surviving moon would have to be
00:12:02 --> 00:12:05 modest in size, orbiting a rapidly spinning
00:12:05 --> 00:12:07 early Venus, which are conditions that don't
00:12:07 --> 00:12:09 match what we think the early Venus was
00:12:09 --> 00:12:10 actually like.
00:12:11 --> 00:12:13 Uh, and so, you know, the
00:12:14 --> 00:12:15 upshot of this is,
00:12:16 --> 00:12:19 um, maybe indeed Venus did
00:12:19 --> 00:12:22 have a moon, which eventually was
00:12:22 --> 00:12:24 essentially gobbled up by Venus. It was
00:12:25 --> 00:12:27 drifted inwards, uh, was torn apart and the
00:12:27 --> 00:12:30 debris essentially rained down on the planet.
00:12:31 --> 00:12:34 Um, the
00:12:34 --> 00:12:37 next step would be essentially
00:12:38 --> 00:12:41 to look for any, what you might
00:12:41 --> 00:12:42 call geological evidence,
00:12:44 --> 00:12:46 uh, on Venus that would
00:12:47 --> 00:12:49 give you some
00:12:49 --> 00:12:52 hints that this is what happened. Uh,
00:12:52 --> 00:12:54 forgive me, Andrew, because I think I'm about
00:12:54 --> 00:12:54 to sneeze.
00:12:55 --> 00:12:57 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I've been fighting one for the last few
00:12:57 --> 00:12:57 minutes too.
00:12:58 --> 00:13:01 Professor Fred Watson: Why are we both sneezing? It's the time of
00:13:01 --> 00:13:04 year. That's right. Uh, let me, um, quote
00:13:04 --> 00:13:06 again, uh, Stephen Cain. Uh,
00:13:06 --> 00:13:09 finding direct observational evidence is
00:13:09 --> 00:13:12 pretty tough. A moon lost billions
00:13:12 --> 00:13:14 of years ago would leave little to no direct
00:13:14 --> 00:13:16 trace we can point a telescope at today
00:13:17 --> 00:13:19 so we can't observe the event itself.
00:13:20 --> 00:13:22 However, there are indirect avenues. For
00:13:22 --> 00:13:25 example, if a moon was destroyed
00:13:25 --> 00:13:28 and its debris rained down on Venus, it could
00:13:28 --> 00:13:30 have left a chemical fingerprint in the
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33 planet's surface or atmosphere. And upcoming
00:13:33 --> 00:13:35 missions to Venus, including NASA's da
00:13:35 --> 00:13:38 Vinci, uh, will measure the
00:13:38 --> 00:13:41 atmospheric composition in detail. So it is
00:13:41 --> 00:13:44 possible, uh, that we might eventually, um,
00:13:45 --> 00:13:47 find something. Uh, one other comment from
00:13:47 --> 00:13:50 Stephen Cain is there's a broader test beyond
00:13:50 --> 00:13:52 our solar system because our results predict
00:13:52 --> 00:13:55 that slowly rotating Venus, like planets
00:13:55 --> 00:13:58 around other stars, should generically
00:13:58 --> 00:14:00 lack large moons. So as astronomers
00:14:00 --> 00:14:03 begin searching for moons around exoplanets,
00:14:03 --> 00:14:06 that's a prediction that can eventually be
00:14:06 --> 00:14:09 checked against real data. Uh, so, yeah, it's
00:14:09 --> 00:14:11 very, very nice piece of work. Uh, I think a
00:14:11 --> 00:14:13 very interesting outcome as well.
00:14:13 --> 00:14:16 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, and it sort of harps back to a storey
00:14:16 --> 00:14:19 from a few weeks ago about, uh, how they
00:14:19 --> 00:14:22 do think they have found continental size
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26 anomalies, um, deep in our
00:14:26 --> 00:14:29 crust that suggests parts of Theia
00:14:29 --> 00:14:30 exist.
00:14:30 --> 00:14:32 Professor Fred Watson: Might be parts of Theia. That's right, yes,
00:14:32 --> 00:14:33 indeed. Yeah.
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35 Andrew Dunkley: So, yeah, then you can draw a similarity
00:14:35 --> 00:14:37 there. And so, yeah, there probably is
00:14:37 --> 00:14:40 evidence if that's indeed what happened. But,
00:14:40 --> 00:14:41 yeah. Ah, how do you find it?
00:14:43 --> 00:14:45 Professor Fred Watson: Well, um, we're very, uh, resourceful, uh,
00:14:46 --> 00:14:47 in that regard, I think. I think, um,
00:14:48 --> 00:14:50 scientists, particularly astronomers, because
00:14:50 --> 00:14:51 they, you know, they've got.
00:14:52 --> 00:14:55 All they've got is what comes in, usually on
00:14:55 --> 00:14:57 electromagnetic radiation, apart from a few
00:14:57 --> 00:15:00 satellites going here and there. Uh, but,
00:15:00 --> 00:15:02 yes, um, uh,
00:15:03 --> 00:15:06 uh, I think we might well
00:15:06 --> 00:15:08 get some hints as to whether this has
00:15:08 --> 00:15:09 happened in the past or not.
00:15:09 --> 00:15:12 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. Okay. Uh if you'd like to read up
00:15:12 --> 00:15:15 on that storey uh great article@spare.com or
00:15:15 --> 00:15:18 you can uh see the pre peer
00:15:18 --> 00:15:21 reviewed paper on the repository site
00:15:21 --> 00:15:23 arXiv. This is space Nuts with Andrew
00:15:23 --> 00:15:25 Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson Watson.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:31 Professor Fred Watson: Roger, you're lots Space Nuts.
00:15:31 --> 00:15:34 Andrew Dunkley: Okay, let's uh get close to
00:15:34 --> 00:15:37 home. In fact uh, we're getting right down
00:15:37 --> 00:15:39 and dirty into our own atmosphere with this
00:15:39 --> 00:15:41 storey and it's got to do with satellite
00:15:41 --> 00:15:44 pollution. Now the number of satellites that
00:15:44 --> 00:15:46 are starting to appear in our sky is
00:15:47 --> 00:15:49 somewhat um, disturbing when it comes to
00:15:50 --> 00:15:52 um optical astronomy. In fact I
00:15:52 --> 00:15:55 saw a photo the other day where this problem
00:15:55 --> 00:15:58 was exhibited. Uh where they'd done a little
00:15:58 --> 00:16:01 bit of time lapse and the
00:16:01 --> 00:16:04 satellite that image were
00:16:04 --> 00:16:07 horrifying. Uh if you're an astronomer they
00:16:07 --> 00:16:08 were probably really interesting for
00:16:09 --> 00:16:12 other people. But uh, it looked the same as
00:16:12 --> 00:16:15 um the contrails that you see
00:16:15 --> 00:16:18 airliners leaving the sky. Um
00:16:19 --> 00:16:21 but it was actually the light reflection
00:16:21 --> 00:16:24 images of the uh satellites. But the
00:16:24 --> 00:16:26 other problem with them is when they come
00:16:26 --> 00:16:29 back down uh, they burn up and
00:16:29 --> 00:16:31 what happens to all that stuff? And that's
00:16:31 --> 00:16:33 the nuts and bolts of this storey.
00:16:34 --> 00:16:36 They've chased a couple down to try and
00:16:36 --> 00:16:39 figure out what happens to you know
00:16:39 --> 00:16:41 everything that burns off them.
00:16:42 --> 00:16:44 Professor Fred Watson: Exactly. So and um, it is a
00:16:45 --> 00:16:47 um. This uh essentially
00:16:47 --> 00:16:49 experiment is very well timed because at the
00:16:49 --> 00:16:52 moment we're with the Starlink
00:16:52 --> 00:16:54 constellation which I think is kind of
00:16:54 --> 00:16:56 already past 12 spacecraft. Uh
00:16:58 --> 00:17:00 not all of them functioning. Um
00:17:01 --> 00:17:03 those are re entering at about one a day.
00:17:04 --> 00:17:06 That's the current rate. And every time one
00:17:06 --> 00:17:09 of those re uh enters the atmosphere it burns
00:17:09 --> 00:17:12 up at about 90 kilometres or thereabouts
00:17:12 --> 00:17:15 above the Earth's surface and its
00:17:15 --> 00:17:18 contents, its metallic contents become part
00:17:18 --> 00:17:21 of the upper atmosphere. Uh and we
00:17:21 --> 00:17:24 already are seeing um, higher levels of
00:17:24 --> 00:17:26 certain oxides of aluminium and things of
00:17:26 --> 00:17:26 that sort.
00:17:26 --> 00:17:29 Uh uh that are probably the result of
00:17:29 --> 00:17:32 these uh reentering satellites. So
00:17:33 --> 00:17:35 uh, the European Space
00:17:36 --> 00:17:38 Agency uh has
00:17:39 --> 00:17:41 I uh think uh in
00:17:41 --> 00:17:44 collaboration with a number of other
00:17:44 --> 00:17:46 organisations. Uh what they've done
00:17:46 --> 00:17:49 is they have decided that they're going to
00:17:49 --> 00:17:52 cheque this out directly. And the way they've
00:17:52 --> 00:17:55 done that is by hiring a private jet as
00:17:55 --> 00:17:58 you do. Um and it's
00:17:59 --> 00:18:01 using uh, that uh private jet. They've
00:18:01 --> 00:18:04 basically chased a pair of reentering
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07 satellites. Um both were due to re
00:18:07 --> 00:18:10 enter uh at about the same um
00:18:10 --> 00:18:13 place I think a day apart. Um and so
00:18:13 --> 00:18:15 what they've done is um, actually
00:18:16 --> 00:18:18 basically followed these In a jet which
00:18:18 --> 00:18:21 is festooned with uh
00:18:21 --> 00:18:23 spectrometers, images, uh and
00:18:23 --> 00:18:26 all of the equipment that we use to try
00:18:26 --> 00:18:29 and learn about what's happening when
00:18:29 --> 00:18:32 things burn up in space. Uh and
00:18:32 --> 00:18:35 so uh, um essentially
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38 uh the satellites tracked
00:18:38 --> 00:18:41 uh in detail uh I like
00:18:41 --> 00:18:44 um the spacecraft that
00:18:44 --> 00:18:47 they chose because there was a constellation
00:18:47 --> 00:18:49 called Cluster which I think we might have
00:18:49 --> 00:18:51 talked about many years ago. A European Space
00:18:51 --> 00:18:54 Agency constellation which had four
00:18:54 --> 00:18:57 individual spacecraft uh which
00:18:57 --> 00:18:59 were named after well known
00:18:59 --> 00:19:02 dances, Tango, samba, rumba and
00:19:02 --> 00:19:03 Salsa.
00:19:03 --> 00:19:06 Uh were the quartet of uh the Cluster
00:19:06 --> 00:19:09 spacecraft and they actually were studying
00:19:09 --> 00:19:12 the way the Earth's magnetic field uh
00:19:12 --> 00:19:15 interacts with the solar wind. And they were
00:19:15 --> 00:19:17 launched back in I think back in the 90s.
00:19:17 --> 00:19:20 It's a long, long time ago. But their
00:19:20 --> 00:19:22 orbits um were
00:19:23 --> 00:19:26 decaying and in fact uh, Rumba and Salsa
00:19:26 --> 00:19:29 I think decayed quite some time ago. So what
00:19:29 --> 00:19:32 was uh in question here was since
00:19:32 --> 00:19:34 they you know these spacecraft are still
00:19:34 --> 00:19:36 sending telemetry back so you know what their
00:19:36 --> 00:19:39 velocity is, you when and where these things
00:19:39 --> 00:19:41 are going to re. Enter the atmosphere. Uh and
00:19:41 --> 00:19:44 it was Tango and Samba which
00:19:44 --> 00:19:47 were basically uh,
00:19:47 --> 00:19:50 um they had controlled RE entry and
00:19:50 --> 00:19:53 it was basically that re entry that was uh
00:19:53 --> 00:19:56 observed by this mission using ah
00:19:56 --> 00:19:59 a chaser jet, if I can put it that way
00:19:59 --> 00:20:02 uh over the South Pacific Ocean. So
00:20:02 --> 00:20:05 uh, what we've seen I think is that this was
00:20:05 --> 00:20:07 successful. There's been um
00:20:09 --> 00:20:11 a bit of a report saying that um
00:20:12 --> 00:20:14 the outcome of the experiment was successful
00:20:14 --> 00:20:16 and that they got the data that they wanted.
00:20:16 --> 00:20:19 I'm uh not sure whether we yet have the
00:20:19 --> 00:20:21 details of what that
00:20:21 --> 00:20:24 analysis was, you know in terms of
00:20:24 --> 00:20:27 what the exact uh effects on the
00:20:27 --> 00:20:30 atmosphere and the byproducts that
00:20:30 --> 00:20:32 came from uh the reentry of these two
00:20:32 --> 00:20:33 spacecraft.
00:20:33 --> 00:20:35 So I think those results are still yet
00:20:36 --> 00:20:38 uh to be described but at least the
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 experiments are worked. Uh apparently there
00:20:40 --> 00:20:43 were eight scientists on board this aircraft
00:20:43 --> 00:20:46 and they um observed
00:20:46 --> 00:20:49 the satellites from about 90 kilometres
00:20:49 --> 00:20:52 down to something like 65 to
00:20:52 --> 00:20:54 70 kilometres when they stopped, basically
00:20:54 --> 00:20:57 stopped burning up. Uh so
00:20:58 --> 00:21:00 they were then completely vaporised. Uh so
00:21:00 --> 00:21:03 these details uh as I said we hope we will
00:21:03 --> 00:21:06 find a little bit more uh as the results
00:21:06 --> 00:21:09 come from that group of
00:21:09 --> 00:21:11 scient, they've
00:21:11 --> 00:21:13 Andrew Dunkley: finished analysing the data and
00:21:14 --> 00:21:16 start uh publishing uh it could
00:21:16 --> 00:21:18 turn into something quite controversial
00:21:18 --> 00:21:21 because if they reveal that there's some
00:21:21 --> 00:21:24 really nasty stuff coming out of all of this,
00:21:24 --> 00:21:26 you know a handful of satellites doing this
00:21:26 --> 00:21:29 probably no big deal but we're going to be
00:21:29 --> 00:21:31 talking over decades to come
00:21:32 --> 00:21:35 tens of thousands burning up,
00:21:35 --> 00:21:36 probably more.
00:21:36 --> 00:21:39 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. When it's one a day, uh, which it is
00:21:39 --> 00:21:41 now, then, uh, you're potentially in trouble.
00:21:41 --> 00:21:43 And you're absolutely right, Andrew, because
00:21:44 --> 00:21:46 one of the possibilities is something
00:21:47 --> 00:21:50 we thought we'd licked back in the 1980s, and
00:21:50 --> 00:21:53 that's ozone depletion. Um, that's one
00:21:53 --> 00:21:56 of the possible outcomes of this. And that
00:21:56 --> 00:21:58 would then become a really hot political
00:22:00 --> 00:22:02 hot potato politically. Uh, given
00:22:02 --> 00:22:04 that you've now got people saying, well,
00:22:04 --> 00:22:06 we've got all these pollutants that are
00:22:06 --> 00:22:08 actually starting to affect the behaviour of
00:22:08 --> 00:22:10 the upper atmosphere. And on the other side
00:22:10 --> 00:22:11 of the coin, you've got people saying, well,
00:22:11 --> 00:22:13 we need Starlink because it's actually a
00:22:13 --> 00:22:15 vital, uh, service, it's vital
00:22:15 --> 00:22:18 infrastructure now on so many fronts. You've
00:22:18 --> 00:22:20 got a really quite interesting situation
00:22:20 --> 00:22:21 emerging, I think.
00:22:21 --> 00:22:22 Andrew Dunkley: Sure have.
00:22:22 --> 00:22:23 Professor Fred Watson: And,
00:22:24 --> 00:22:25 Andrew Dunkley: yeah,
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 where do you point the finger, if you want to
00:22:30 --> 00:22:33 put it that way? Uh, how do you, um,
00:22:33 --> 00:22:35 curtail these effects and whose
00:22:35 --> 00:22:36 responsibility does it become?
00:22:38 --> 00:22:40 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, you start looking, I think, at, um,
00:22:40 --> 00:22:42 what you make your spacecraft out of. The
00:22:42 --> 00:22:44 Japanese have demonstrated that you can make
00:22:44 --> 00:22:46 wooden spacecraft and operate them
00:22:46 --> 00:22:48 successfully. Uh, and I think wood
00:22:48 --> 00:22:51 is one of the more benign, uh,
00:22:51 --> 00:22:54 materials, um, that would burn up. Of
00:22:54 --> 00:22:56 course, you still got soot and carbon coming
00:22:56 --> 00:22:58 off that. But, um, it might not be the
00:22:59 --> 00:23:01 aluminium that, um, is
00:23:01 --> 00:23:04 certainly the biggest constituent of, of what
00:23:04 --> 00:23:06 is coming from present satellite reentries.
00:23:07 --> 00:23:10 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, indeed. M. So, yeah, it's a case of,
00:23:10 --> 00:23:11 watch this. Space.
00:23:11 --> 00:23:14 Uh, we will probably learn more about this
00:23:14 --> 00:23:17 and, uh, we'll tell you all about it when
00:23:17 --> 00:23:19 that day comes. Um, but they'll be analysing
00:23:19 --> 00:23:21 the data at the moment and,
00:23:22 --> 00:23:24 uh, we hope it's good news, but I've got a
00:23:24 --> 00:23:25 feeling it won't be, Fred Watson.
00:23:26 --> 00:23:28 Professor Fred Watson: M. Yeah, I think you're right.
00:23:28 --> 00:23:31 Andrew Dunkley: Okay. Uh, that is a storey you can Also
00:23:31 --> 00:23:34 read@spare.com this is Space
00:23:34 --> 00:23:36 Nuts. Andrew Dunc, frankly, here with
00:23:36 --> 00:23:37 Fred Watson Watson,
00:23:41 --> 00:23:44 Professor Fred Watson: Tranquilly Base here. The Eagle has landed.
00:23:44 --> 00:23:45 Space Nuts.
00:23:46 --> 00:23:48 Andrew Dunkley: Our final storey. Uh, Fred Watson,
00:23:48 --> 00:23:51 takes us into the realm of science fiction,
00:23:51 --> 00:23:54 at least in part. Uh, they have just
00:23:54 --> 00:23:56 unveiled what might be
00:23:56 --> 00:23:59 the new United, uh, States
00:23:59 --> 00:24:01 Space Force uniforms.
00:24:02 --> 00:24:05 And they've got tongues wagging
00:24:05 --> 00:24:07 because they've drawn some similarities
00:24:07 --> 00:24:10 between the uniforms. And when I first saw
00:24:10 --> 00:24:12 them, my mind immediately went to,
00:24:13 --> 00:24:15 um, SS uniforms of World War II.
00:24:15 --> 00:24:16 Professor Fred Watson: Exactly.
00:24:17 --> 00:24:19 Andrew Dunkley: And, uh, that is the controversy because they
00:24:19 --> 00:24:22 do not sort of. I mean, it's the first
00:24:22 --> 00:24:24 thing that comes to mind when you look at
00:24:24 --> 00:24:27 these designs which have just been unveiled.
00:24:28 --> 00:24:30 Professor Fred Watson: Um, and Just to clarify where this has come
00:24:30 --> 00:24:33 from. It's come from Truth Social. Uh, it's
00:24:33 --> 00:24:35 one of uh, President Trump's
00:24:37 --> 00:24:39 basically, uh, uh, one of his posts on Truth
00:24:39 --> 00:24:42 Social. The um, as yet
00:24:42 --> 00:24:44 unconfirmed design is how it's being
00:24:44 --> 00:24:44 described.
00:24:45 --> 00:24:47 But yes, um, that was my thought too
00:24:48 --> 00:24:49 when I looked at this. I thought, wait a
00:24:49 --> 00:24:51 minute, I've seen that sort of thing before.
00:24:52 --> 00:24:55 Um, but you are ah, probably aware as well of
00:24:55 --> 00:24:58 the sort of science fiction links that there
00:24:58 --> 00:25:00 are with uh, with this, where this
00:25:00 --> 00:25:02 uniform is said to have come from.
00:25:02 --> 00:25:05 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, this, uh, back in the
00:25:05 --> 00:25:08 90s, the late 90s, uh, 1997, there was a
00:25:08 --> 00:25:10 movie released based on a book called
00:25:10 --> 00:25:13 Starship Troopers. And
00:25:13 --> 00:25:14 anybody who's watched that film, and I've
00:25:14 --> 00:25:17 watched it multiple times, it's a bit
00:25:17 --> 00:25:20 tongue in cheek. Um, there's a lot of,
00:25:20 --> 00:25:23 um, to use the Australian vernacular,
00:25:23 --> 00:25:26 Jingo is a m. Minute. Um, but it
00:25:26 --> 00:25:29 portrays a, ah, human society that is
00:25:29 --> 00:25:32 very, very authoritari, very,
00:25:33 --> 00:25:35 very super aggressive, very um,
00:25:36 --> 00:25:38 competitive. Uh, lots of.
00:25:39 --> 00:25:41 It would be a very tense place to live
00:25:42 --> 00:25:44 if Earth as we know it,
00:25:45 --> 00:25:48 um, was the way Starship Troopers
00:25:48 --> 00:25:51 portrays human life. And they're at war
00:25:51 --> 00:25:54 against the bugs, um, who live
00:25:54 --> 00:25:57 on a planet called Clandathu. You know what's
00:25:57 --> 00:25:58 sad about this, Fred Watson? I'm doing it all
00:25:58 --> 00:26:01 from memory. And they have been shooting
00:26:01 --> 00:26:04 asteroids at ear. And um, in the
00:26:04 --> 00:26:06 movie they destroy the city of Buenos Aires.
00:26:06 --> 00:26:09 And that sort of causes um,
00:26:09 --> 00:26:12 the humans to up the ante in terms of
00:26:12 --> 00:26:15 trying to eliminate the bugs. Uh, and
00:26:15 --> 00:26:18 so it goes on. But what's striking about it,
00:26:18 --> 00:26:20 not only the authoritarian,
00:26:21 --> 00:26:24 um, nature of the military in
00:26:25 --> 00:26:27 this film, is the uniforms.
00:26:28 --> 00:26:31 They are dead set. Um, just
00:26:31 --> 00:26:33 like the uniforms that have been
00:26:33 --> 00:26:36 suggested as the new U.S. space Force
00:26:36 --> 00:26:38 uniforms. I did a bit of research on this,
00:26:38 --> 00:26:39 Fred Watson.
00:26:39 --> 00:26:42 Um, uh, the uniforms in
00:26:42 --> 00:26:45 um, the 1997 film
00:26:45 --> 00:26:48 Starship Troopers were deliberately designed
00:26:48 --> 00:26:50 by a costume designer, Ellen
00:26:50 --> 00:26:53 mirojink, uh, to evoke
00:26:53 --> 00:26:55 fascist aesthetics.
00:26:55 --> 00:26:56 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, so.
00:26:56 --> 00:26:59 Andrew Dunkley: So they're basically designed
00:26:59 --> 00:27:01 around the Nazi military uniform.
00:27:02 --> 00:27:04 That was deliberate. That was done on
00:27:04 --> 00:27:06 purpose. And now we're seeing These new
00:27:06 --> 00:27:09 uniforms, 2026,
00:27:09 --> 00:27:12 um, being unveiled, um, based
00:27:12 --> 00:27:15 on the uniforms from Starship Troopers
00:27:15 --> 00:27:16 and um,
00:27:18 --> 00:27:21 Star Wars. If you remember, um, the Empire
00:27:21 --> 00:27:24 uniforms were of a similar ilk. They
00:27:24 --> 00:27:26 are, look, don't get me wrong, they're quite
00:27:26 --> 00:27:29 striking, quite striking. But
00:27:30 --> 00:27:33 they immediately put you in um,
00:27:33 --> 00:27:35 a mindset of going, whoa.
00:27:36 --> 00:27:36 Professor Fred Watson: What?
00:27:39 --> 00:27:42 Andrew Dunkley: You're not impressed? You're just going,
00:27:43 --> 00:27:46 hello. What are we thinking here? Why are we
00:27:46 --> 00:27:49 doing it this way. That's kind of the
00:27:49 --> 00:27:50 reaction I had head.
00:27:51 --> 00:27:54 Professor Fred Watson: And me too. Um, when, when I saw
00:27:54 --> 00:27:56 it was the boots, I noticed first I thought,
00:27:56 --> 00:27:57 wait a minute, I've seen that sort of thing
00:27:57 --> 00:27:58 before.
00:27:58 --> 00:27:59 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, Jack Boots.
00:27:59 --> 00:28:00 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, exactly.
00:28:00 --> 00:28:02 Andrew Dunkley: More or less. Yeah, yeah, they're quite,
00:28:02 --> 00:28:05 um, I mean, I, I think
00:28:05 --> 00:28:08 uniforms are an amazing thing. Uh, I, I don't
00:28:08 --> 00:28:10 know where they originated. I, I did look it
00:28:10 --> 00:28:13 up once and I, I, I think it was the British
00:28:13 --> 00:28:16 or no, the Romans. The Romans, um, that
00:28:16 --> 00:28:18 invented uniforms. But, um,
00:28:19 --> 00:28:21 everybody has them now and, and some of them
00:28:21 --> 00:28:23 are incredible. I mean, uniforms for some
00:28:23 --> 00:28:26 reason make human beings look better
00:28:27 --> 00:28:29 somehow. Um, and
00:28:31 --> 00:28:33 these ones, I don't know if you're going to
00:28:33 --> 00:28:36 get the right kind of psychological
00:28:36 --> 00:28:39 reaction when, if they
00:28:39 --> 00:28:41 go down this road. And that's a, that's a big
00:28:41 --> 00:28:41 if, I guess.
00:28:43 --> 00:28:46 Professor Fred Watson: I don't know where this storey's going
00:28:46 --> 00:28:49 really, Andrew. And, um, you know, what
00:28:49 --> 00:28:52 we are likely to see coming out of the Space
00:28:52 --> 00:28:54 Force itself rather than just coming from the
00:28:54 --> 00:28:57 President's fertile, uh, mind.
00:28:58 --> 00:29:00 But, um, yes, I didn't find it
00:29:00 --> 00:29:03 something that cheered me up particularly.
00:29:03 --> 00:29:06 Uh, I thought it was very much along
00:29:06 --> 00:29:08 the lines that you've described something
00:29:08 --> 00:29:10 that we could probably well do with that.
00:29:10 --> 00:29:11 Uniformly so.
00:29:11 --> 00:29:14 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. But what I would say to, uh, Space
00:29:14 --> 00:29:16 Nuts listeners is have a look for yourself
00:29:17 --> 00:29:19 and be your own judge. Don't, you don't have
00:29:19 --> 00:29:22 to believe what we think. Um, we're just.
00:29:23 --> 00:29:25 As soon as I opened the storey that
00:29:25 --> 00:29:27 Fred Watson sent me, I went, what is this?
00:29:29 --> 00:29:31 Before I read a thing, I saw the picture and
00:29:31 --> 00:29:34 went, what are we looking at here? And then I
00:29:34 --> 00:29:36 read the caption and went, no,
00:29:38 --> 00:29:41 seriously. Ah, anyway, have a look.
00:29:41 --> 00:29:43 Uh, you can see it@, uh,
00:29:43 --> 00:29:45 spaceconnectonline.com
00:29:46 --> 00:29:48 it's um. Yeah, or just do
00:29:49 --> 00:29:51 a search through your favourite search engine
00:29:51 --> 00:29:54 of United States Space Force Service
00:29:54 --> 00:29:57 dress uniform, I think is what it's called.
00:29:57 --> 00:30:00 Um, and. Yeah, well,
00:30:01 --> 00:30:03 we'll leave it to you to decide what you
00:30:03 --> 00:30:06 think. Uh, ah, it's a
00:30:06 --> 00:30:08 difficult one because, uh, it's so divisive.
00:30:09 --> 00:30:11 Just that look in
00:30:11 --> 00:30:14 itself without saying anything, um, would
00:30:14 --> 00:30:17 be instantly divisive, I venture to
00:30:17 --> 00:30:17 say.
00:30:18 --> 00:30:19 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, you're probably right.
00:30:21 --> 00:30:24 Um, yeah, to me
00:30:24 --> 00:30:26 it just portrays arrogance of a kind that,
00:30:26 --> 00:30:28 um, we could do without.
00:30:28 --> 00:30:30 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, possibly so.
00:30:30 --> 00:30:30 Professor Fred Watson: All right.
00:30:31 --> 00:30:34 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, yeah, As I said, spaceconnectonline.com
00:30:34 --> 00:30:36 if you want to cheque that out. And I think
00:30:36 --> 00:30:38 we are just about done.
00:30:38 --> 00:30:39 Fred Watson, thank you so much.
00:30:39 --> 00:30:41 Professor Fred Watson: It's a pleasure, Andrew. Always interesting
00:30:41 --> 00:30:43 to chew the fat over these issues, no matter
00:30:43 --> 00:30:46 what they are. We did get away from our
00:30:46 --> 00:30:48 normal stocking trade there, uh, with the
00:30:48 --> 00:30:51 uniforms. It's not often we talk about, uh,
00:30:51 --> 00:30:53 fashion in terms of, um, you know, space
00:30:53 --> 00:30:55 fashion, if I can put it that way.
00:30:55 --> 00:30:57 Andrew Dunkley: Well, that's what it is, isn't it, really?
00:30:57 --> 00:30:58 Space fashion.
00:30:58 --> 00:30:58 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:30:58 --> 00:31:01 Andrew Dunkley: Well, we've talked about the flight
00:31:01 --> 00:31:02 suits, certainly.
00:31:02 --> 00:31:03 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, we have.
00:31:03 --> 00:31:05 Andrew Dunkley: When they've done major upgrades on those and
00:31:05 --> 00:31:08 their incompatibility between space agencies,
00:31:08 --> 00:31:08 so.
00:31:08 --> 00:31:09 Professor Fred Watson: That's right.
00:31:09 --> 00:31:12 Andrew Dunkley: There's always controversy somewhere, even in
00:31:12 --> 00:31:14 fashion. Uh, thanks, Fred Watson. We'll catch
00:31:14 --> 00:31:15 you on the next episode.
00:31:15 --> 00:31:16 Professor Fred Watson: Sounds great.
00:31:16 --> 00:31:18 Andrew Dunkley: Thank you, Professor Fred Watson Watson,
00:31:18 --> 00:31:20 astronomer at large. And don't forget to
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00:31:49 --> 00:31:51 Uh, and thanks to Huw in the studio, uh, who
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53 couldn't, uh, be with us today. He wanted,
00:31:53 --> 00:31:56 uh, to be the first in line for a Space Force
00:31:56 --> 00:31:59 uniform. And he's still waiting.
00:31:59 --> 00:32:01 And from me, Andrew Dunkley, we'll catch you
00:32:01 --> 00:32:03 on the next episode of Space Nuts. Until
00:32:03 --> 00:32:06 then, bye bye. Space Nuts. You've been
00:32:06 --> 00:32:07 listening to the Space Nuts
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00:32:19 --> 00:32:21 this has been another quality podcast
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