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Space Nuts: Q&A on Radial Velocity, Dark Matter, and Angular Momentum
In this engaging Q&A episode of Space Nuts, hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson tackle a variety of intriguing listener questions, ranging from the complexities of radial velocity in exoplanet detection to the mysteries of dark matter and angular momentum in black holes. Join them as they explore these cosmic conundrums with their characteristic wit and expertise.
Key topics
- Hussein from Yemen asks about the radial velocity method for detecting exoplanets, prompting a discussion on how astronomers can isolate individual planets from the combined gravitational effects of multiple bodies.
- Martin from Maryland raises a thought-provoking question on the potential to harness dark energy for space flight, leading to an exploration of the feasibility of accelerating spacecraft to near-light speeds.
- Peter from Sweden inquires about the angular momentum of matter falling into black holes, sparking a conversation on whether this matter retains its momentum or needs to shed some energy before crossing the event horizon.
- Andrew and Fred Watson also touch on the ongoing search for Planet Nine and the importance of surveying exoplanets for understanding the universe's structure and potential for life beyond Earth.
Timestamps
00:00 - Introduction to the Q&A format and listener questions
01:20 - Hussein's question about radial velocity and exoplanets
10:30 - Martin's inquiry on harnessing dark energy for space travel
18:45 - Peter's question about angular momentum and black holes
26:00 - Discussion on the significance of ongoing exoplanet surveys
32:15 - Closing thoughts and listener engagement
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00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Andrew Dunkley: Hi there. Thanks again for joining us. This
00:00:02 --> 00:00:04 is Space Nuts. It's a Q and A edition where
00:00:04 --> 00:00:07 we answer audience questions. And,
00:00:07 --> 00:00:09 uh, we. I think we've got our very first
00:00:10 --> 00:00:12 question from Yemen. Uh, Hussein
00:00:12 --> 00:00:15 has sent, uh, it a question asking about
00:00:15 --> 00:00:18 radial velocity. Uh, Martin, one of
00:00:18 --> 00:00:20 our regular contributors, has a dark matter
00:00:20 --> 00:00:23 he wants to discuss. Uh, Peter
00:00:23 --> 00:00:26 in Sweden is talking angular momentum.
00:00:26 --> 00:00:29 Uh, that is the angular momentum of matter
00:00:29 --> 00:00:31 falling into a black hole. And a
00:00:32 --> 00:00:34 real bummer of a question. We'll tell you all
00:00:34 --> 00:00:37 about it on this episode of space
00:00:37 --> 00:00:38 nuts.
00:00:38 --> 00:00:40 Professor Fred Watson: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.
00:00:40 --> 00:00:42 10, 9.
00:00:42 --> 00:00:45 Ignition sequence start. Space nuts.
00:00:45 --> 00:00:46 Berman Gorvine: 5, 4, 3, 2.
00:00:46 --> 00:00:49 Professor Fred Watson: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4, 3,
00:00:49 --> 00:00:50 2, 1.
00:00:50 --> 00:00:51 Andrew Dunkley: Space nuts.
00:00:51 --> 00:00:53 Professor Fred Watson: Astronauts report it feels good.
00:00:54 --> 00:00:56 Andrew Dunkley: And he's back again to solve all your
00:00:56 --> 00:00:58 riddles. It's Professor Fred Watson Watson,
00:00:58 --> 00:01:00 astronomer at large. Hello, Fred Watson.
00:01:01 --> 00:01:03 Professor Fred Watson: Hello, Andrew. Good to see you again. I
00:01:03 --> 00:01:05 always hoped we'd get back together again one
00:01:05 --> 00:01:07 day and here we've been ages.
00:01:09 --> 00:01:12 Andrew Dunkley: About two minutes. Uh, yeah.
00:01:12 --> 00:01:15 Um, anyway, I love the
00:01:15 --> 00:01:17 Q and A programme, I really do, because it
00:01:17 --> 00:01:20 gives people a chance to, um, dump on us
00:01:20 --> 00:01:22 and see how much we can mess it up. And
00:01:23 --> 00:01:26 that's always fun. Um, we might
00:01:26 --> 00:01:28 get straight into it. Fred Watson and
00:01:29 --> 00:01:31 I was very excited to see that. We've got a
00:01:31 --> 00:01:34 question from Yemen. I never thought we. I
00:01:34 --> 00:01:36 didn't even know we were heard in Yemen,
00:01:37 --> 00:01:39 so that's really fantastic. And,
00:01:39 --> 00:01:42 um, this one comes from Hussain, who says,
00:01:42 --> 00:01:44 I'm a huge fan of the podcast Calling in from
00:01:44 --> 00:01:47 Yemen. See, I was right. It was Yemen. Ah,
00:01:47 --> 00:01:48 First, a quick confession. I hope you're not
00:01:48 --> 00:01:51 offended, but Space Nuts is my absolute
00:01:51 --> 00:01:53 favourite show to listen to when I'm falling
00:01:53 --> 00:01:53 asleep.
00:01:57 --> 00:01:59 Your voices are incredibly soothing. Uh,
00:01:59 --> 00:02:02 though I promise I do actually listen to the
00:02:02 --> 00:02:04 science before I drift off. I
00:02:04 --> 00:02:07 appreciate that. Um, my wife says I keep
00:02:07 --> 00:02:10 her awake, um, because I snore, but
00:02:10 --> 00:02:12 I don't believe it. I've never heard me. Uh,
00:02:12 --> 00:02:15 my question is about the radial velocity
00:02:15 --> 00:02:17 method for detecting exoplanets. I understand
00:02:17 --> 00:02:19 that a star wobbles because of the
00:02:19 --> 00:02:22 gravitational pull of its orbiting planets.
00:02:22 --> 00:02:25 However, how do astronomers use this
00:02:25 --> 00:02:27 method to isolate individual planets? For
00:02:27 --> 00:02:30 example, our sun must wobble because Mercury,
00:02:30 --> 00:02:33 Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and the rest pull
00:02:33 --> 00:02:35 in different directions at the same time. If
00:02:35 --> 00:02:38 an alien astronomer were looking at our
00:02:38 --> 00:02:40 sun's wobble from across the galaxy, would
00:02:40 --> 00:02:43 they actually be able to untangle that
00:02:43 --> 00:02:45 messy combined signal to
00:02:45 --> 00:02:48 identify individual planets and their
00:02:48 --> 00:02:50 specific characteristics?
00:02:50 --> 00:02:53 Or does the wobble method just tell us, hey,
00:02:53 --> 00:02:55 there are planets here, without giving away
00:02:55 --> 00:02:58 the exact Details of who's who. Love
00:02:58 --> 00:03:00 the show. Keep up the fantastic work,
00:03:00 --> 00:03:02 Hussein. That's a really well crafted
00:03:02 --> 00:03:04 question. Thank you, Hussain.
00:03:05 --> 00:03:08 Professor Fred Watson: It is a great question as well. Uh, and
00:03:08 --> 00:03:11 the answer in a way is both.
00:03:11 --> 00:03:14 Um, the two alternatives that
00:03:14 --> 00:03:16 Hussein's put forward, uh, can you
00:03:16 --> 00:03:18 disentangle them or does the wobble method
00:03:18 --> 00:03:21 just tell us, hey, there are planets there,
00:03:21 --> 00:03:24 without giving away the exact details and
00:03:24 --> 00:03:26 what differentiates
00:03:26 --> 00:03:29 between them is first of
00:03:29 --> 00:03:32 all how bright the star is, how near it is.
00:03:32 --> 00:03:35 So what kind of strength of signal you get in
00:03:35 --> 00:03:37 terms of measuring the velocity of the star
00:03:37 --> 00:03:40 itself by this Doppler wobble method,
00:03:40 --> 00:03:43 uh, to analyse for planets. But also it
00:03:43 --> 00:03:46 depends on the sizes of the planets
00:03:46 --> 00:03:49 and on their mix, uh, as well.
00:03:49 --> 00:03:52 Um, so, uh, just thinking about
00:03:52 --> 00:03:55 the solar system, we've got the biggest
00:03:55 --> 00:03:58 planet, Jupiter. That's the one that has by
00:03:58 --> 00:04:00 far the biggest effect on the sun.
00:04:00 --> 00:04:03 Saturn comes next, uh, in terms of its
00:04:03 --> 00:04:06 size. And then the other two, uh, gas giants,
00:04:06 --> 00:04:09 uh, uh, Uranus and Neptune, uh,
00:04:10 --> 00:04:13 the terrestrial planets or rocky planets
00:04:13 --> 00:04:15 also have an effect. Uh,
00:04:16 --> 00:04:19 but because their masses are much lower, the
00:04:19 --> 00:04:21 effect is also much lower.
00:04:21 --> 00:04:23 It's mitigated slightly by by the fact that
00:04:23 --> 00:04:26 they're nearer to the sun, uh, but
00:04:26 --> 00:04:28 nevertheless they're much, much weaker than
00:04:28 --> 00:04:31 the gas giants. So if you were, uh,
00:04:31 --> 00:04:33 uh, an alien on a planet,
00:04:33 --> 00:04:36 uh, orbiting a star maybe eight or nine light
00:04:36 --> 00:04:38 years away, something like that, which is the
00:04:38 --> 00:04:41 distance to Sirius, uh, the brightest star in
00:04:41 --> 00:04:43 the sky, and you're looking back at the solar
00:04:43 --> 00:04:46 system, uh, the first thing you
00:04:46 --> 00:04:47 would see would be, uh,
00:04:48 --> 00:04:51 the main motion which would be due
00:04:51 --> 00:04:54 to Jupiter because its mass is so much
00:04:54 --> 00:04:56 bigger. The other planets, however,
00:04:57 --> 00:05:00 if you had really highly
00:05:00 --> 00:05:03 accurate velocity measurements and
00:05:03 --> 00:05:05 you'd need them almost to
00:05:05 --> 00:05:08 centimetres per second accuracy, uh,
00:05:08 --> 00:05:10 it can be done. Uh, there are ways of
00:05:10 --> 00:05:12 calibrating spectrographs to let you do this.
00:05:13 --> 00:05:16 Uh, but if you did have these really accurate
00:05:16 --> 00:05:19 readings and you could do
00:05:19 --> 00:05:22 your measurements almost 24 7,
00:05:22 --> 00:05:24 which you can't because, uh, certainly if
00:05:24 --> 00:05:26 we're anything like the Earth, you've got
00:05:26 --> 00:05:29 daylight coming in the way. Uh, but what
00:05:29 --> 00:05:32 you want to do is fill in the time domain as
00:05:32 --> 00:05:34 full as you can to get as many data
00:05:34 --> 00:05:37 points as you can, then what you would
00:05:37 --> 00:05:40 do, you'd build up a picture which would
00:05:40 --> 00:05:43 be dominated by Jupiter. But the
00:05:43 --> 00:05:46 graph of the speed of the star,
00:05:46 --> 00:05:49 the wobble of the star would have little ups
00:05:49 --> 00:05:52 and downs in it caused by the
00:05:52 --> 00:05:54 other planets. Uh, and you
00:05:54 --> 00:05:57 can disentangle those. There is
00:05:57 --> 00:06:00 a technique called Fourier analysis,
00:06:01 --> 00:06:04 uh, it uses, uh, things that we call fast
00:06:04 --> 00:06:07 Fourier transforms, which is a mathematical
00:06:07 --> 00:06:10 tool that um, kind of dates
00:06:10 --> 00:06:12 from the early days of computing, in fact,
00:06:12 --> 00:06:13 well before that when people did their
00:06:13 --> 00:06:16 calculations by hand. But for this, it's a
00:06:16 --> 00:06:18 way of disentangling just how many,
00:06:19 --> 00:06:21 what we might call periodicities, in other
00:06:21 --> 00:06:24 words, how many regular, um, passages
00:06:24 --> 00:06:27 are there, ah, caused
00:06:27 --> 00:06:29 by individual planets, if I can put it that
00:06:29 --> 00:06:30 way.
00:06:30 --> 00:06:32 So you can tease out the effect of
00:06:33 --> 00:06:35 each individual planet because they all have
00:06:35 --> 00:06:37 different periods of revolution, uh,
00:06:37 --> 00:06:40 around the sun. In the case of, if
00:06:40 --> 00:06:43 you're looking at the solar system. So, um,
00:06:43 --> 00:06:46 if you've got good enough data, you can uh,
00:06:46 --> 00:06:49 as Hussein suggests, uh, identify
00:06:49 --> 00:06:51 the individual planets and their specific
00:06:51 --> 00:06:53 characteristics. But if your data aren't so
00:06:53 --> 00:06:56 good, then you're basically just seeing the
00:06:56 --> 00:06:58 biggest ones of them. And that's just telling
00:06:58 --> 00:07:00 you that there's at least one planet there.
00:07:01 --> 00:07:03 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, early on when we started discovering
00:07:04 --> 00:07:07 uh, exoplanets, we were only finding the big
00:07:07 --> 00:07:09 ones, weren't we? We assumed there were small
00:07:09 --> 00:07:12 ones, but it took us a long time to find the
00:07:12 --> 00:07:13 first one, didn't it?
00:07:13 --> 00:07:16 Professor Fred Watson: That's right. And in fact, um,
00:07:16 --> 00:07:19 it highlights the uh, the
00:07:19 --> 00:07:21 deficiencies of the Doppler wobble method,
00:07:21 --> 00:07:23 what Hussain was talking about as a way to
00:07:23 --> 00:07:26 discover planets, because it's really,
00:07:27 --> 00:07:29 that's most sensitive to the biggest ones.
00:07:30 --> 00:07:33 Uh, it was when the Kepler spacecraft,
00:07:33 --> 00:07:36 uh, and uh, Tess, the
00:07:36 --> 00:07:39 other, um, planet finding spacecraft, when
00:07:39 --> 00:07:42 they started looking in detail at the way the
00:07:42 --> 00:07:45 brightness of stars changed, uh, as
00:07:45 --> 00:07:47 planets passed in front of their parent
00:07:47 --> 00:07:49 stars. Uh, that's when we
00:07:50 --> 00:07:52 started discovering the smaller ones because
00:07:52 --> 00:07:55 the smaller ones are actually, uh, easier
00:07:55 --> 00:07:56 to discover that way.
00:07:57 --> 00:07:59 Andrew Dunkley: Um, here's a dumb question.
00:08:01 --> 00:08:03 Can we, can,
00:08:04 --> 00:08:07 can we look with accuracy at
00:08:07 --> 00:08:10 the wobble of our own sun because of
00:08:10 --> 00:08:12 the planets surrounding it, including our
00:08:12 --> 00:08:13 own?
00:08:13 --> 00:08:15 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, uh, you can, yes.
00:08:16 --> 00:08:19 Um, and um, you
00:08:19 --> 00:08:21 can actually find, um, uh,
00:08:21 --> 00:08:24 diagrams showing the way.
00:08:26 --> 00:08:28 It's what we call the barycenter. The
00:08:28 --> 00:08:30 barycenter of the solar system is its
00:08:30 --> 00:08:33 centre of gravity, which takes into account
00:08:33 --> 00:08:36 not just the sun, uh, but the planets
00:08:36 --> 00:08:38 as well. And the barycenter does wander
00:08:38 --> 00:08:41 around. Uh, mostly it's inside
00:08:41 --> 00:08:44 the sun. It does come outside the sun
00:08:44 --> 00:08:47 from time to time. Uh, but uh, you can
00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 find charts showing exactly how that happens.
00:08:50 --> 00:08:51 Uh, you know, little maps of the way the
00:08:51 --> 00:08:54 barycentra of the solar system wanders around
00:08:54 --> 00:08:55 relative to the sun.
00:08:57 --> 00:08:57 Berman Gorvine: Okay.
00:08:57 --> 00:09:00 Andrew Dunkley: I wondered, I didn't know if we
00:09:00 --> 00:09:03 could do it within our own sphere. So to
00:09:03 --> 00:09:03 speak.
00:09:04 --> 00:09:05 Professor Fred Watson: Not a dumb question at all. Absolutely.
00:09:05 --> 00:09:08 Andrew Dunkley: There you go. I occasionally ask one that's
00:09:08 --> 00:09:11 adequate. Uh, and uh, thank you
00:09:11 --> 00:09:13 to Hussain for sending that question in from
00:09:14 --> 00:09:16 Yemen. Lovely to hear from you. And you're
00:09:16 --> 00:09:18 listening to SpaceNuts with Andrew Dunkley
00:09:18 --> 00:09:20 and Professor Fred Watson Watson.
00:09:21 --> 00:09:23 Let's take a quick break from the show to
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00:10:58 --> 00:11:00 spacenuts and don't forget the code word
00:11:00 --> 00:11:01 Space Nuts.
00:11:02 --> 00:11:03 Professor Fred Watson: I'm going to step off the land now.
00:11:06 --> 00:11:08 That's one small step for man.
00:11:11 --> 00:11:11 Berman Gorvine: One
00:11:14 --> 00:11:15 Berman Gorvine: Space Nuts.
00:11:16 --> 00:11:18 Andrew Dunkley: Let's hit uh, you with an audio question from
00:11:18 --> 00:11:20 one of our regular contributors.
00:11:21 --> 00:11:24 Berman Gorvine: Hello, Space Nuts.
00:11:24 --> 00:11:27 Martin Berman Gorvine here from
00:11:27 --> 00:11:30 Potomac, Maryland, usa,
00:11:31 --> 00:11:34 writer extraordinaire in many
00:11:34 --> 00:11:37 genres. With a
00:11:37 --> 00:11:40 slightly less silly, though
00:11:40 --> 00:11:42 still highly
00:11:42 --> 00:11:45 speculative question.
00:11:46 --> 00:11:49 Since dark energy is
00:11:49 --> 00:11:52 thought to pervade the entire
00:11:52 --> 00:11:55 universe, would it
00:11:55 --> 00:11:58 be possible, at least in
00:11:58 --> 00:12:01 theory, to harness that energy
00:12:02 --> 00:12:05 to drive space flight? And
00:12:05 --> 00:12:08 if so, uh, could you make
00:12:08 --> 00:12:11 a spacecraft go arbitrarily
00:12:11 --> 00:12:14 fast? By that means, you
00:12:14 --> 00:12:17 know, 99 point a whole bunch of
00:12:17 --> 00:12:19 nines percent of
00:12:19 --> 00:12:22 uh, the Speed of light for
00:12:22 --> 00:12:25 that extra relativistic
00:12:25 --> 00:12:28 Philip. So that when you
00:12:29 --> 00:12:31 step out at your destination,
00:12:32 --> 00:12:34 the uh, universe has aged
00:12:35 --> 00:12:37 significantly, but you,
00:12:38 --> 00:12:40 the traveller, have not.
00:12:41 --> 00:12:44 Can't wait for the
00:12:44 --> 00:12:46 answer. Which will probably involve
00:12:47 --> 00:12:50 Professor Watson shooting me down in
00:12:50 --> 00:12:53 flames as usual. Berman
00:12:53 --> 00:12:55 Gorvine, over and
00:12:56 --> 00:12:56 out.
00:12:57 --> 00:13:00 Andrew Dunkley: Thanks, Martin. Martin sent me a couple
00:13:00 --> 00:13:02 copy, uh, of uh, two of his latest books
00:13:02 --> 00:13:05 which I haven't had a chance to, to read and
00:13:05 --> 00:13:07 I did promise I would but um, uh, I was too
00:13:07 --> 00:13:10 busy writing my own. So, uh,
00:13:10 --> 00:13:12 um, but I will get to the.
00:13:12 --> 00:13:14 Martin, thanks for sending those in. Uh, fire
00:13:14 --> 00:13:15 away, Fred Watson.
00:13:17 --> 00:13:20 Professor Fred Watson: To shoot him down. Uh, I have to say these
00:13:20 --> 00:13:23 um, these questions do sound like the making
00:13:23 --> 00:13:25 of another of Martin's books.
00:13:26 --> 00:13:29 Uh, so, uh, you know, putting
00:13:29 --> 00:13:31 the ingredients uh, of um,
00:13:31 --> 00:13:33 science into the books. It's a great idea if
00:13:33 --> 00:13:35 you're going to write science fiction. It's
00:13:35 --> 00:13:36 nice to have some science in it as well.
00:13:37 --> 00:13:40 Um, yes you do. Um,
00:13:41 --> 00:13:44 what Martin's question made me think about
00:13:45 --> 00:13:48 was, um, the number of
00:13:48 --> 00:13:50 joules of energy contained,
00:13:51 --> 00:13:54 represented by dark energy per
00:13:54 --> 00:13:56 cubic metre of space.
00:13:57 --> 00:13:59 And I've no idea what that is, but I bet per
00:13:59 --> 00:14:02 cubic metre it's actually quite small,
00:14:03 --> 00:14:06 uh, because um, we only
00:14:06 --> 00:14:08 see the effect of dark energy when we look at
00:14:08 --> 00:14:11 the universe on a very large scale. When we
00:14:11 --> 00:14:14 look, you know, billions of light years out,
00:14:14 --> 00:14:17 we start to see its effects. We can
00:14:17 --> 00:14:19 tell that the universe has been expanding
00:14:19 --> 00:14:21 more rapidly, uh, since the universe was
00:14:21 --> 00:14:24 about half its present age. Uh,
00:14:24 --> 00:14:27 so I guess, you know, if you imagine
00:14:27 --> 00:14:29 a tank full of dark energy,
00:14:30 --> 00:14:33 uh, on any kind of human scale,
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35 whether it's the size of a, I don't know, you
00:14:35 --> 00:14:37 know, the size of the fuel tank on your car
00:14:37 --> 00:14:40 or the size of the average supertanker,
00:14:40 --> 00:14:42 um, my guess is that the amount of energy
00:14:42 --> 00:14:45 that, that would cont would actually be
00:14:45 --> 00:14:48 quite small. Um, I'm um, happy to be
00:14:48 --> 00:14:50 shot down on that, but I think it would
00:14:50 --> 00:14:53 simply because you're looking at uh,
00:14:53 --> 00:14:56 um, almost an infinitesimally small
00:14:56 --> 00:14:58 volume compared with the volumes that we
00:14:58 --> 00:15:00 think about when we're talking about the
00:15:00 --> 00:15:02 expansion of the universe and the accelerated
00:15:02 --> 00:15:04 expansion of the universe. So,
00:15:04 --> 00:15:07 um, how do you bottle it? Well, good
00:15:07 --> 00:15:10 question. Uh, that's the first thing
00:15:10 --> 00:15:12 you've got to do is find a way of extracting
00:15:12 --> 00:15:15 dark energy from space, putting it in a tank.
00:15:15 --> 00:15:18 But you might that if you do that on any kind
00:15:18 --> 00:15:20 of conceivable scale, you don't have enough
00:15:20 --> 00:15:22 to make any difference whatsoever to your
00:15:22 --> 00:15:25 spacecraft, let alone accelerate it to
00:15:25 --> 00:15:28 9999999% of the
00:15:28 --> 00:15:31 speed of light. So, um, I hope
00:15:31 --> 00:15:33 that's, uh, suitably satisfactory. Shooting
00:15:33 --> 00:15:35 down, Martin.
00:15:35 --> 00:15:37 Uh, I don't always shoot your theories down.
00:15:37 --> 00:15:40 I think your, uh, ideas are uh, lovely and
00:15:40 --> 00:15:42 well worth listening to.
00:15:42 --> 00:15:45 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, he's got a way, he's got a way of asking
00:15:45 --> 00:15:48 questions that he does. Lots of, Lots of fun.
00:15:48 --> 00:15:48 Lots of fun.
00:15:48 --> 00:15:49 Professor Fred Watson: He does.
00:15:49 --> 00:15:52 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, thank you, Martin. Um, we've got some
00:15:52 --> 00:15:54 live listeners, uh, uh, or viewers,
00:15:55 --> 00:15:57 um, who messaged us. And remember, uh,
00:15:57 --> 00:15:59 James from Cincinnati. Haven't heard from
00:15:59 --> 00:16:01 James in ages. Well, he's just popped up to
00:16:01 --> 00:16:02 say hello.
00:16:02 --> 00:16:02 Professor Fred Watson: So.
00:16:02 --> 00:16:04 Andrew Dunkley: Hi James. And uh, a question without
00:16:04 --> 00:16:07 notice, um, which sort of goes back to our
00:16:07 --> 00:16:09 radial velocity message method of searching
00:16:09 --> 00:16:11 for exoplanets. Um, I'm wondering,
00:16:11 --> 00:16:14 um, so we already know other suns have
00:16:14 --> 00:16:16 planets, so why the extensive investigation
00:16:16 --> 00:16:18 to keep searching for more? What's the point?
00:16:20 --> 00:16:23 Professor Fred Watson: Oh, it's a good question. Um, so it's all
00:16:23 --> 00:16:26 about, it's surveying. Um, basically,
00:16:26 --> 00:16:29 uh, astronomers are, uh, inveterate
00:16:29 --> 00:16:31 surveyors. It's how we discover
00:16:31 --> 00:16:34 the large scale characteristics of the
00:16:34 --> 00:16:37 universe. And it's also how we find the
00:16:37 --> 00:16:38 outliers, the things that are really
00:16:38 --> 00:16:41 peculiar, uh, and that need
00:16:41 --> 00:16:44 explanation and that sometimes defy science
00:16:44 --> 00:16:47 as we know it and um, often result in
00:16:47 --> 00:16:50 physics being rewritten. Uh, so,
00:16:51 --> 00:16:54 uh, it's
00:16:54 --> 00:16:56 like doing population census studies. It's.
00:16:57 --> 00:16:59 Why do you want to know how many people, uh,
00:16:59 --> 00:17:02 live in a country? And it's all about,
00:17:02 --> 00:17:04 um. Well, in the case of humans, it's all
00:17:04 --> 00:17:07 about providing the right resources for them.
00:17:07 --> 00:17:08 But in the case of.
00:17:10 --> 00:17:11 Why do you want to know how many different
00:17:11 --> 00:17:13 kinds of exoplanets there are? It's uh,
00:17:14 --> 00:17:16 because we might find exactly what we've just
00:17:16 --> 00:17:18 been talking about. The water worlds. Uh, we
00:17:18 --> 00:17:20 might find habitable worlds. We might even
00:17:20 --> 00:17:23 find a SETI signal from one of them. So,
00:17:23 --> 00:17:25 uh, this is very much an important part of
00:17:26 --> 00:17:28 the astronomers understanding of the
00:17:28 --> 00:17:31 universe. To explore and
00:17:31 --> 00:17:33 investigate as many of these things as we
00:17:33 --> 00:17:33 can.
00:17:34 --> 00:17:35 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. And of course, the most important
00:17:35 --> 00:17:38 reason, if we do a planetary census,
00:17:38 --> 00:17:41 we can then introduce an international tax
00:17:41 --> 00:17:44 system system or intergalactic tax system,
00:17:44 --> 00:17:46 more to the point. Yes.
00:17:47 --> 00:17:50 Okay. Uh, you are listening to a Q and A
00:17:50 --> 00:17:52 edition of Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley and
00:17:52 --> 00:17:54 Professor Fred Watson Watson.
00:17:57 --> 00:17:59 Professor Fred Watson: Three, two, one.
00:18:00 --> 00:18:03 Andrew Dunkley: Space Nuts. Our next question comes from
00:18:03 --> 00:18:05 Svedon. Uh, can matter
00:18:06 --> 00:18:09 that falls into a black hole keep its angular
00:18:09 --> 00:18:11 momentum and sort of add it to
00:18:11 --> 00:18:14 the black hole's angular momentum? Uh,
00:18:14 --> 00:18:16 or does matter Fall into a black hole.
00:18:17 --> 00:18:20 Um, or does matter falling into a
00:18:20 --> 00:18:22 black hole need to shed its angular momentum,
00:18:22 --> 00:18:25 or part of it through radiating, uh, energy
00:18:25 --> 00:18:28 out into space before it can fall down the
00:18:28 --> 00:18:31 hole? If so, why can't a black
00:18:31 --> 00:18:33 hole that can retain light and
00:18:34 --> 00:18:36 spaghettify things pull things in despite
00:18:37 --> 00:18:39 their angular momentum and just add the
00:18:39 --> 00:18:42 incoming momentum to itself? That comes from
00:18:42 --> 00:18:44 Peter in Sweden.
00:18:45 --> 00:18:48 Uh, it's one of those complicated questions
00:18:48 --> 00:18:50 that would have wiped me out at school
00:18:50 --> 00:18:52 based on some form of geometry.
00:18:56 --> 00:18:59 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, I am, um. So I
00:18:59 --> 00:19:01 don't know the answer to this question. Um,
00:19:02 --> 00:19:05 but thinking what little I do know
00:19:05 --> 00:19:07 about black holes, I would guess. Um,
00:19:07 --> 00:19:10 and I'll need to cheque this, Peter. So I
00:19:10 --> 00:19:12 apologise that this is an off the cuff
00:19:12 --> 00:19:14 answer. But I would guess that the angular
00:19:14 --> 00:19:17 momentum does. That it is
00:19:17 --> 00:19:20 additive. Uh, that you would add the
00:19:20 --> 00:19:22 angular momentum of incoming accreted
00:19:22 --> 00:19:24 material which will have it because it's
00:19:24 --> 00:19:26 whizzing around the black hole at very high
00:19:26 --> 00:19:29 speeds. Um, uh, as the black
00:19:29 --> 00:19:32 hole collapse, as the stuff crosses the event
00:19:32 --> 00:19:34 horizon and is subsumed into the black hole,
00:19:35 --> 00:19:37 uh, I would guess that actually adds to the,
00:19:37 --> 00:19:40 to the black hole's angular momentum. But
00:19:40 --> 00:19:42 I'll need to cheque. Uh, and I will do that
00:19:42 --> 00:19:43 because that's a really good question.
00:19:44 --> 00:19:46 Andrew Dunkley: Okay. Well, that was easy.
00:19:46 --> 00:19:48 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, well, it wasn't because I don't know
00:19:48 --> 00:19:51 the answer, but. But I'm guessing I,
00:19:51 --> 00:19:53 uh, I think it probably would. Yeah.
00:19:53 --> 00:19:56 Andrew Dunkley: Actually reminds me, we had one we had to do
00:19:56 --> 00:19:58 some homework on recently and I think we've.
00:19:59 --> 00:20:01 I don't know if we did it. Anyway, I'll go.
00:20:01 --> 00:20:04 Professor Fred Watson: I usually make it. Yeah, I usually make notes
00:20:04 --> 00:20:06 on things like that as well. I think you're
00:20:06 --> 00:20:06 right too.
00:20:07 --> 00:20:10 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. I might do a whole show on
00:20:11 --> 00:20:13 Professor Fred Watson: things we've forgotten.
00:20:13 --> 00:20:14 Andrew Dunkley: Things we've forgotten to look up.
00:20:15 --> 00:20:16 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, yeah.
00:20:16 --> 00:20:18 Andrew Dunkley: Um, we might get back to you, Peter.
00:20:19 --> 00:20:22 Uh, thanks for the question. Um, this
00:20:22 --> 00:20:25 question. This question needs
00:20:25 --> 00:20:27 setting up because, uh, it's a question,
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30 but it's not a question. Uh, and it comes
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33 from, uh, Dave. Now, I know people have
00:20:33 --> 00:20:35 accidentally called me Dave from time to
00:20:35 --> 00:20:37 time. It's nice to have a real Dave. And
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 when I read your question, Dave, I thought, I
00:20:40 --> 00:20:43 can't just let you go. I've got
00:20:43 --> 00:20:46 to, um, preempt it with something that I
00:20:46 --> 00:20:47 thought was appropriate.
00:20:48 --> 00:20:51 Professor Fred Watson: Hello, Dave. You're looking well
00:20:51 --> 00:20:51 today.
00:20:53 --> 00:20:54 Andrew Dunkley: Um, this is Dave.
00:20:56 --> 00:20:58 Berman Gorvine: Greetings. This is Dave from Gilbert,
00:20:58 --> 00:21:01 Arizona, with apologies in advance for my
00:21:01 --> 00:21:04 question. So anyway, I don't know if you, uh,
00:21:04 --> 00:21:06 heard about this, but, um, it's been reported
00:21:06 --> 00:21:08 that there's something strange in the region
00:21:08 --> 00:21:10 of our solar system somewhere between Saturn
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13 and Neptune. And I wanted to hear your
00:21:13 --> 00:21:15 opinion on the notion that it could be a
00:21:15 --> 00:21:18 black hole or a brown dwarf, or possibly a
00:21:18 --> 00:21:20 black dwarf or a brown hole out near the
00:21:20 --> 00:21:23 orbit of Uranus. So, by
00:21:23 --> 00:21:25 the way, uh, some people in the US Government
00:21:25 --> 00:21:27 have pooh, poohed this idea, while others
00:21:27 --> 00:21:30 from the US Military, such as Colin Powell
00:21:30 --> 00:21:33 and several rear admirals, are calling for a
00:21:33 --> 00:21:35 probe so we can get to the bottom of this.
00:21:36 --> 00:21:38 Now, I was wondering if you can get behind
00:21:38 --> 00:21:40 this notion or if you care to rebut it.
00:21:40 --> 00:21:42 In either case, I'm looking forward to
00:21:42 --> 00:21:44 hearing your posterior analysis.
00:21:45 --> 00:21:47 Uh, I also have a question about. Dang
00:21:47 --> 00:21:49 it, I gotta go. That's my landlord calling. I
00:21:49 --> 00:21:52 must be in arrears again on my rent. I'll
00:21:52 --> 00:21:53 have to call you back later with my question,
00:21:54 --> 00:21:57 super massive dark matter. Although that
00:21:57 --> 00:21:59 may actually be more of a medical question.
00:21:59 --> 00:22:01 Anyway, I wanted to say that your podcast is
00:22:01 --> 00:22:04 a real asset to the astronomical community.
00:22:04 --> 00:22:07 No ifs, ifs, ands, or buts about that. So
00:22:07 --> 00:22:09 cheers to you. Slash. Bottoms up.
00:22:11 --> 00:22:14 Andrew Dunkley: Ah, that's very clever, Dave. Um, I
00:22:14 --> 00:22:15 don't think we've ever had. You ready for
00:22:15 --> 00:22:17 this one, Fred Watson? I don't think we've
00:22:17 --> 00:22:20 ever had such an asinine
00:22:20 --> 00:22:21 question.
00:22:23 --> 00:22:26 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, yeah, it's, um. It's got
00:22:26 --> 00:22:28 every buzzword in the dictionary in there,
00:22:28 --> 00:22:29 hasn't it?
00:22:29 --> 00:22:30 Andrew Dunkley: It sure has.
00:22:30 --> 00:22:32 Professor Fred Watson: Especially the no if so. But I like that. I
00:22:32 --> 00:22:34 loved it. I loved it.
00:22:34 --> 00:22:37 Andrew Dunkley: Well done, Dave. I like that he spent
00:22:37 --> 00:22:39 time thinking about that and. And come up
00:22:39 --> 00:22:42 with. Yeah, all those
00:22:42 --> 00:22:43 superlatives.
00:22:43 --> 00:22:46 Professor Fred Watson: It's very, very well done. Um, my
00:22:46 --> 00:22:48 answer to it is, uh, yes,
00:22:49 --> 00:22:51 accreted material does add to the
00:22:51 --> 00:22:53 angular momentum of a black hole.
00:22:53 --> 00:22:54 Andrew Dunkley: Oh, you looked it up?
00:22:55 --> 00:22:57 Professor Fred Watson: I looked it up well, while I was enjoying
00:22:57 --> 00:23:00 Dave's question, because I know, having heard
00:23:00 --> 00:23:02 it before, that I didn't have to provide an
00:23:02 --> 00:23:02 answer to that.
00:23:04 --> 00:23:06 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, actually, the live audience thought
00:23:06 --> 00:23:08 that was brilliant, too. We've got some very
00:23:08 --> 00:23:10 good remarks about it.
00:23:10 --> 00:23:10 Professor Fred Watson: So. Yeah.
00:23:10 --> 00:23:12 Andrew Dunkley: And another question, without notice,
00:23:12 --> 00:23:13 Fred Watson,
00:23:15 --> 00:23:17 when AI first came along,
00:23:19 --> 00:23:21 um, the. The questioner can
00:23:21 --> 00:23:23 remember that, and. Well, I think we all can.
00:23:23 --> 00:23:26 But can Professor Watson
00:23:26 --> 00:23:29 say, um, whether or not
00:23:29 --> 00:23:32 AI is being used by seti? Didn't
00:23:32 --> 00:23:35 we get that question the other day? Or
00:23:35 --> 00:23:38 a similar question about the use of AI in,
00:23:38 --> 00:23:38 um.
00:23:38 --> 00:23:41 In, uh, in astronomy? I don't know if we did
00:23:41 --> 00:23:43 it in regard to the search for
00:23:43 --> 00:23:45 extraterrestrials yeah.
00:23:45 --> 00:23:48 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, we did, we did. About the way it can be
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50 used to really tease out
00:23:50 --> 00:23:53 information that might otherwise,
00:23:53 --> 00:23:55 uh, go unnoticed because of the
00:23:56 --> 00:23:58 statistical methods that we use. So,
00:23:58 --> 00:24:01 um, uh, it's an
00:24:01 --> 00:24:03 intriguing thought though,
00:24:04 --> 00:24:06 uh, when you turn it the other way around in
00:24:06 --> 00:24:07 regard to seti, whether
00:24:09 --> 00:24:12 the putative extraterrestrial intelligence
00:24:12 --> 00:24:15 itself is using AI and may even be
00:24:15 --> 00:24:17 AI, um, how would we
00:24:17 --> 00:24:20 disentangle that from, um,
00:24:20 --> 00:24:22 a non AI, um,
00:24:22 --> 00:24:25 uh, extraterrestrial entity?
00:24:25 --> 00:24:27 It leads us into all kinds of uncharted
00:24:27 --> 00:24:29 waters. Does. That's quite an interesting
00:24:29 --> 00:24:29 question.
00:24:30 --> 00:24:32 Andrew Dunkley: It does indeed.
00:24:32 --> 00:24:34 Um, and back to
00:24:34 --> 00:24:37 Dave's, uh, tongue in cheek question.
00:24:38 --> 00:24:41 Uh, of course there is an
00:24:41 --> 00:24:44 object that they think is out there somewhere
00:24:44 --> 00:24:46 that we haven't yet found, and that's called
00:24:46 --> 00:24:48 Planet Nine. So
00:24:48 --> 00:24:51 even though I know, I know where he was
00:24:51 --> 00:24:54 coming from, he was, he was being extra
00:24:54 --> 00:24:56 funny and the comments are still coming from
00:24:56 --> 00:24:59 people who thought it was. Um, but in
00:24:59 --> 00:25:01 reality there, there is
00:25:01 --> 00:25:04 definitely a possibility of something out
00:25:04 --> 00:25:06 there that they haven't found, but they, they
00:25:06 --> 00:25:09 know it exists, whether
00:25:09 --> 00:25:12 it's a planet or a bunch of stuff,
00:25:13 --> 00:25:15 um, that's affecting
00:25:17 --> 00:25:19 the outer solar system, I suppose.
00:25:19 --> 00:25:21 Professor Fred Watson: Correct. And it's been in the news again
00:25:21 --> 00:25:23 recently. Actually. I almost, uh, put it up
00:25:23 --> 00:25:25 as one of the topics we should cover that,
00:25:26 --> 00:25:28 um, there have been more comments on
00:25:28 --> 00:25:31 the possibility of Planet Nine. The original
00:25:31 --> 00:25:34 researchers who highlighted this,
00:25:34 --> 00:25:37 um, Mike Brown and uh,
00:25:38 --> 00:25:40 one of his colleagues, they have
00:25:41 --> 00:25:42 basically said that
00:25:44 --> 00:25:46 if it's not Planet Nine, there is still
00:25:46 --> 00:25:49 something that needs explained, which is more
00:25:49 --> 00:25:51 or less what you've just said. Ah, but, um,
00:25:51 --> 00:25:53 they are still very confident that we will,
00:25:53 --> 00:25:56 uh, unearth a very distant planet, quite
00:25:56 --> 00:25:59 a massive one, that is affecting the orbits
00:25:59 --> 00:26:02 of these, um, trans neptunian objects,
00:26:02 --> 00:26:04 which are, ah, in very elongated orbits.
00:26:05 --> 00:26:07 So the jury's still out on it. It's one of
00:26:07 --> 00:26:08 these, I think it's one of these questions
00:26:08 --> 00:26:10 that we'll talk about for some time to come,
00:26:10 --> 00:26:10 Andrew.
00:26:12 --> 00:26:14 Andrew Dunkley: And like, the questions are coming, but we
00:26:14 --> 00:26:17 can't keep. We can't. Like, we'll be here all
00:26:17 --> 00:26:20 day if we go. But, um, back to the AI
00:26:20 --> 00:26:20 question.
00:26:20 --> 00:26:22 How else has AI been used in
00:26:22 --> 00:26:25 astronomy? Uh, I think the possibilities,
00:26:25 --> 00:26:27 uh, are endless, aren't they?
00:26:28 --> 00:26:30 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, pretty. Well, um, uh, it's,
00:26:30 --> 00:26:32 it's, you know, I mean, people,
00:26:33 --> 00:26:36 the main ways, the way I've just described in
00:26:36 --> 00:26:38 terms of actually using it to advance
00:26:38 --> 00:26:41 astronomy, people use AI, I'm sure, for
00:26:41 --> 00:26:43 writing their papers. And I do know one of my
00:26:43 --> 00:26:46 colleagues in Arizona uses, uh, AI to
00:26:46 --> 00:26:48 mark the papers as well. Oh, uh, wow.
00:26:50 --> 00:26:53 Andrew Dunkley: Looking for patterns of people who didn't
00:26:53 --> 00:26:53 think for themselves.
00:26:55 --> 00:26:58 Professor Fred Watson: I think looking for the whole hug. Um, he
00:26:58 --> 00:27:00 presented a paper. This was at a conference.
00:27:00 --> 00:27:01 Was it last year or the year before? I think
00:27:01 --> 00:27:04 it was the year before last. Uh, which, um,
00:27:04 --> 00:27:06 he was very impressed with, um, the,
00:27:07 --> 00:27:10 uh, I don't know which breed of AI he was
00:27:10 --> 00:27:11 using, but he was very impressed with the
00:27:11 --> 00:27:14 outcomes from that and said they actually
00:27:14 --> 00:27:17 matched the human marking results,
00:27:17 --> 00:27:20 uh, very well. But just
00:27:20 --> 00:27:23 aside from that, I think, um, the main use
00:27:23 --> 00:27:25 in advancing astronomy is very much in
00:27:25 --> 00:27:27 applying it to these very large data sets.
00:27:28 --> 00:27:31 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I have used it quite a
00:27:31 --> 00:27:33 bit, uh, in researching elements of my
00:27:34 --> 00:27:37 books when I write. Um, I've already
00:27:37 --> 00:27:40 started a prequel to my latest to
00:27:40 --> 00:27:42 my new trilogy, which is,
00:27:43 --> 00:27:45 um, going well and thanks to everyone who's,
00:27:45 --> 00:27:48 who's bought a copy. Uh,
00:27:48 --> 00:27:51 and it's lots of fun. I actually, uh,
00:27:51 --> 00:27:53 have found a way of using AI,
00:27:53 --> 00:27:56 um, that I, uh, really
00:27:56 --> 00:27:58 enjoy. It's not just about doing a search,
00:27:58 --> 00:28:00 but you can sit there and literally have a
00:28:00 --> 00:28:03 conversation and, and weed out information as
00:28:03 --> 00:28:06 you go. It's, It's a lot of fun. Um,
00:28:06 --> 00:28:08 my wife thought I was, you know,
00:28:09 --> 00:28:12 a bit, um, beyond my station using AI
00:28:12 --> 00:28:15 because I'm, I'm not a young person. Um,
00:28:16 --> 00:28:17 she went to the hairdresser the other day
00:28:17 --> 00:28:19 and, um, the hairdresser said, I'm going to
00:28:19 --> 00:28:22 redesign my salon. I asked Chat GPT
00:28:22 --> 00:28:25 to design it for me. Well, now she's using
00:28:25 --> 00:28:27 AI, isn't she? Yeah. Okay. Wouldn't, wouldn't
00:28:27 --> 00:28:30 do it if I suggested a it. But
00:28:30 --> 00:28:32 the hairdresser, they know everything.
00:28:33 --> 00:28:36 Um, okay, thanks to everybody who's
00:28:36 --> 00:28:38 sending questions and, uh, our live audience
00:28:38 --> 00:28:40 for contributing as well. It's been a lot of
00:28:40 --> 00:28:42 fun and thank you, Fred Watson.
00:28:42 --> 00:28:44 Uh, that brings us to the end of yet another
00:28:44 --> 00:28:44 episode.
00:28:46 --> 00:28:48 Professor Fred Watson: It does, doesn't it? Yeah, well, I've learned
00:28:48 --> 00:28:51 something in that one. Um, that, uh, yes,
00:28:51 --> 00:28:54 angular momentum does, ah, add from
00:28:54 --> 00:28:56 accretive material. So there you go.
00:28:56 --> 00:28:58 Andrew Dunkley: All right, uh, we'll see you soon,
00:28:58 --> 00:28:59 Fred Watson. Thank you.
00:29:00 --> 00:29:00 Professor Fred Watson: Cheers.
00:29:00 --> 00:29:02 Andrew Dunkley: For now, Professor Fred Watson Watson,
00:29:02 --> 00:29:04 astronomer at large. And if you've got
00:29:04 --> 00:29:06 questions for us, please jump on our website,
00:29:06 --> 00:29:09 spacenutspodcast.com or spacenuts
00:29:09 --> 00:29:12 IO if you're a lazy typist. And
00:29:12 --> 00:29:14 click on the AMA tab at the top and send us
00:29:14 --> 00:29:16 your text or audio questions. Don't forget to
00:29:16 --> 00:29:18 tell us who you are and where you're from. We
00:29:18 --> 00:29:21 just like to know so that we can spam
00:29:21 --> 00:29:24 you later. Uh, and, uh, thanks to
00:29:24 --> 00:29:26 Huw in the studio. Um, although Huw couldn't
00:29:26 --> 00:29:29 be with us today. Uh, you know, we've
00:29:29 --> 00:29:31 been, um, searching for. For Planet nine,
00:29:31 --> 00:29:33 which is difficult to find, but I reckon
00:29:33 --> 00:29:36 we'll probably find it before we find Huw.
00:29:36 --> 00:29:38 And from me, Andrew Dunkley, thanks for your
00:29:38 --> 00:29:40 company. We'll see you on the next episode of
00:29:40 --> 00:29:42 Space Nuts. Bye.
00:29:42 --> 00:29:42 Professor Fred Watson: Bye.
00:29:43 --> 00:29:45 Andrew Dunkley: You've been listening to the Space Nuts
00:29:45 --> 00:29:48 podcast, available at
00:29:48 --> 00:29:50 Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
00:29:50 --> 00:29:53 iHeartRadio or your favourite podcast
00:29:53 --> 00:29:55 player. You can also stream on
00:29:55 --> 00:29:56 demand@bytes.com.
00:29:57 --> 00:29:59 Professor Fred Watson: this has been another quality podcast
00:29:59 --> 00:30:01 production from bytes.com.
00:30:01 --> 00:30:02 Berman Gorvine: um,