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Space Nuts: Space Force Weapons, Purple Mars, and New Lunar Crater
In this episode of Space Nuts, hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson delve into some fascinating and thought-provoking topics. They kick off with the recent revelation about the existence of weapons in orbit around Earth, a significant admission from the United States that raises questions about the future of space security. The conversation shifts to Mars, where stunning new images suggest that we might need to reconsider its nickname as the "Red Planet" due to striking purple hues observed in its southern regions. Finally, the duo discusses a newly discovered crater on the Moon, the largest of its kind in recent history, and what this means for our understanding of lunar impacts and surface changes.
Key topics
- The United States acknowledges the presence of weapons in space, sparking discussions about the implications for global security and the arms race in orbit.
- An exploration of Mars' changing colour palette, with new images revealing purple landscapes that challenge our traditional views of the planet.
- The discovery of a significant new crater on the Moon, highlighting the ongoing geological activity and impact history of our celestial neighbour.
Timestamps
00:00 - Introduction and overview of topics
01:20 - Discussion on weapons in orbit and implications for space security
15:30 - Mars as the "Purple Planet" and the significance of new imagery
25:00 - New lunar crater discovery and its implications for lunar geology
35:15 - Closing thoughts and listener engagement
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00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Andrew Dunkley: Hello, thanks for joining us. This is Space
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 Nuts, where we talk astronomy, space science
00:00:05 --> 00:00:07 and all sorts of weird and wonderful things.
00:00:07 --> 00:00:10 This one though, uh, one of the stories we're
00:00:10 --> 00:00:11 covering today, uh, sort of
00:00:12 --> 00:00:15 dovetails into something we talked about not,
00:00:15 --> 00:00:18 um, so long ago regarding Space
00:00:18 --> 00:00:20 Force. No, it's not a sequel to their, uh,
00:00:20 --> 00:00:23 unveiling of their uniforms, but it
00:00:23 --> 00:00:25 is something we have talked about recently.
00:00:25 --> 00:00:27 So the penny might drop with, uh, a few
00:00:27 --> 00:00:30 people as to what that might be. We'll get
00:00:30 --> 00:00:33 into that shortly. And should we be calling
00:00:33 --> 00:00:35 Mars the purple planet? I'll tell you
00:00:35 --> 00:00:38 why. And they've found yet another big crater
00:00:38 --> 00:00:41 on the moon. We'll talk about all of that on,
00:00:41 --> 00:00:44 uh, the latest episode of space nuts.
00:00:44 --> 00:00:46 Professor Fred Watson: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.
00:00:47 --> 00:00:49 10, 9. Ignition
00:00:49 --> 00:00:50 sequence start.
00:00:51 --> 00:00:51 Professor Fred Watson: Space nuts.
00:00:51 --> 00:00:54 Professor Fred Watson: 5, 4, 3. 2. 1. 2, 3, 4,
00:00:54 --> 00:00:56 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
00:00:56 --> 00:00:58 Andrew Dunkley: Space nuts.
00:00:58 --> 00:00:59 Professor Fred Watson: Astronauts report it feels good.
00:01:01 --> 00:01:04 Andrew Dunkley: And he joins us again and, uh, we're so
00:01:04 --> 00:01:05 happy to have him. It's Professor Fred Watson
00:01:05 --> 00:01:07 Watson, astronomer at large. Hello,
00:01:07 --> 00:01:08 Fred Watson.
00:01:08 --> 00:01:09 Professor Fred Watson: Hello, Andrew.
00:01:09 --> 00:01:11 Hello, M. I think we both had a busy week,
00:01:11 --> 00:01:13 haven't we? It's amazing we can squeeze these
00:01:13 --> 00:01:14 in. Yes, yes.
00:01:14 --> 00:01:17 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, it's crazy. Uh, and, and
00:01:17 --> 00:01:19 uh, next week's going to be even worse for me
00:01:19 --> 00:01:21 with, um, a major golf tournament at our
00:01:21 --> 00:01:24 club, which I'm heavily involved in
00:01:25 --> 00:01:27 and I think not only on the organising side
00:01:27 --> 00:01:30 of it. I've got to play for 18 whole
00:01:30 --> 00:01:33 rounds in, um,
00:01:33 --> 00:01:36 six days or something. Oh, gosh, I
00:01:36 --> 00:01:39 don't know. Why do we do these things to
00:01:39 --> 00:01:39 ourselves, Fred Watson?
00:01:41 --> 00:01:42 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, exactly.
00:01:42 --> 00:01:45 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, it'll be fun. It'll be fun.
00:01:45 --> 00:01:48 Um, it'll probably help me sleep on the
00:01:48 --> 00:01:50 plane when we do our trip in a, in a couple
00:01:50 --> 00:01:52 of weeks time. Although by the time this
00:01:52 --> 00:01:55 episode gets released, um, I, I don't
00:01:55 --> 00:01:58 know where we'll be. But, um, let's get down
00:01:58 --> 00:02:00 to business. We have got so much to talk
00:02:00 --> 00:02:00 about.
00:02:00 --> 00:02:03 And this first story has probably
00:02:04 --> 00:02:07 shocked, um, a few people that have uh, now
00:02:07 --> 00:02:10 heard the news, uh, involving Space
00:02:10 --> 00:02:12 Force and their um,
00:02:13 --> 00:02:16 announcement that there are in fact
00:02:17 --> 00:02:19 weapons in orbit around Earth.
00:02:19 --> 00:02:21 We talked about this not so long ago,
00:02:21 --> 00:02:23 Fred Watson, and we just assumed that's
00:02:23 --> 00:02:25 probably the case. But no one's admitting
00:02:25 --> 00:02:27 anything. Well now the United States has
00:02:28 --> 00:02:29 actually fessed up.
00:02:30 --> 00:02:32 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, they have. That's right, with an
00:02:32 --> 00:02:34 announcement, uh, which I've currently lost.
00:02:37 --> 00:02:39 Uh, but is. Here we are.
00:02:40 --> 00:02:42 Uh, it was, came from the secretary, uh, of
00:02:42 --> 00:02:45 the Air Force, um, whose
00:02:45 --> 00:02:48 name is Tony Meek. I think that's how it's
00:02:48 --> 00:02:51 pronounced. Uh, and this was at a
00:02:51 --> 00:02:53 conference on airspace and
00:02:53 --> 00:02:56 cyber, uh, and the
00:02:56 --> 00:02:58 secretary of the Air Force or Air Force
00:02:59 --> 00:03:02 said today we continue to ensure we remain
00:03:02 --> 00:03:04 ready to meet the challenges of evolving
00:03:04 --> 00:03:07 threats wherever they exist. This is why the
00:03:07 --> 00:03:10 United States now has on orbit
00:03:10 --> 00:03:13 space control weapons capable of defending
00:03:13 --> 00:03:15 the joint force against hostile adversary
00:03:15 --> 00:03:18 action. So, um,
00:03:18 --> 00:03:21 you know, it's one of these things pretty
00:03:21 --> 00:03:23 well, as you said that we've talked about
00:03:23 --> 00:03:25 before, that we've
00:03:26 --> 00:03:28 tacitly assumed, uh, certain other powers
00:03:28 --> 00:03:31 have weapons in space, but nobody's ever
00:03:31 --> 00:03:34 come up front and said it. Um,
00:03:34 --> 00:03:36 and so the, uh,
00:03:37 --> 00:03:39 admission by the secretary of the Air Force
00:03:39 --> 00:03:42 is quite significant. So,
00:03:42 --> 00:03:45 uh, it sounds as though
00:03:45 --> 00:03:48 there's a whole retinue of
00:03:48 --> 00:03:50 possibilities that this might include.
00:03:51 --> 00:03:53 My first thought was electromagnetic weapons,
00:03:53 --> 00:03:56 lasers, um, because that's what
00:03:56 --> 00:03:58 the Reagan administration were looking at
00:03:58 --> 00:04:01 back in the 1980s, the
00:04:01 --> 00:04:03 Reagan star wars programme.
00:04:04 --> 00:04:06 But, uh, we now have, um,
00:04:07 --> 00:04:09 I, uh, guess a whole array of things that
00:04:09 --> 00:04:11 probably weren't around then. Um, including
00:04:12 --> 00:04:15 directed energy by lasers,
00:04:15 --> 00:04:17 uh, or radio frequency jammers. But also
00:04:17 --> 00:04:20 there are chemical sprayers, uh, there's net
00:04:20 --> 00:04:23 equipment, microwave devices. Once again,
00:04:23 --> 00:04:25 that's electromagnetic or
00:04:26 --> 00:04:28 basically just good old fashioned
00:04:28 --> 00:04:31 kinetic impact. Uh, in other words,
00:04:32 --> 00:04:32 something into.
00:04:32 --> 00:04:33 Andrew Dunkley: Crash into something.
00:04:33 --> 00:04:36 Professor Fred Watson: That's right, yeah. Uh, so, uh,
00:04:36 --> 00:04:39 yeah, really interesting, uh, to read that.
00:04:39 --> 00:04:41 Uh, the first thing I did when I read this
00:04:41 --> 00:04:44 last week or earlier in the week was to
00:04:45 --> 00:04:47 check what the, um, International
00:04:47 --> 00:04:49 Space Outer space treaty of
00:04:49 --> 00:04:52 1967 says about weapons. What
00:04:52 --> 00:04:55 it specifically, um,
00:04:56 --> 00:04:59 prohibits is nuclear, uh,
00:04:59 --> 00:05:02 weapons. They are, uh,
00:05:02 --> 00:05:04 definitely prohibited by the
00:05:05 --> 00:05:07 treaty, though it doesn't mention
00:05:08 --> 00:05:10 non nuclear weapons. On the other hand,
00:05:11 --> 00:05:13 it does say that, um, you know,
00:05:14 --> 00:05:16 the International Space Treaty is all about
00:05:16 --> 00:05:19 the peaceful uses of outer space.
00:05:19 --> 00:05:22 Um, and so it sort of tends to rule out, uh,
00:05:23 --> 00:05:24 something that's not peaceful.
00:05:26 --> 00:05:28 Andrew Dunkley: And Earth is very upset by that news.
00:05:28 --> 00:05:28 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:05:28 --> 00:05:31 Professor Fred Watson: Ah, I, uh, need to keep an eye on him
00:05:31 --> 00:05:34 because I'm his soul,
00:05:34 --> 00:05:36 Andrew Dunkley: um, soul carer today.
00:05:36 --> 00:05:39 Professor Fred Watson: Not carer. Um, Yeah, I
00:05:39 --> 00:05:41 don't know what the word is.
00:05:42 --> 00:05:45 Uh, I'm his soul support. Just give me a
00:05:45 --> 00:05:47 second, Andrew. I've got to find out what's
00:05:47 --> 00:05:47 going on.
00:05:47 --> 00:05:48 Andrew Dunkley: Okay.
00:05:48 --> 00:05:48 Professor Fred Watson: Ah.
00:05:50 --> 00:05:52 Andrew Dunkley: Ah, it happens sometimes.
00:05:52 --> 00:05:55 Um, we've got one across the road that does
00:05:55 --> 00:05:57 exactly the same thing whenever the wind
00:05:57 --> 00:06:00 changes. Just goes off its proverbial nut
00:06:01 --> 00:06:03 and, um.
00:06:03 --> 00:06:03 Professor Fred Watson: What's your problem?
00:06:03 --> 00:06:06 Andrew Dunkley: I can't see him at the moment. But it's only
00:06:06 --> 00:06:09 a puppy. See, it doesn't understand,
00:06:09 --> 00:06:11 but, um, it drives people crazy
00:06:13 --> 00:06:13 sometimes.
00:06:14 --> 00:06:14 Professor Fred Watson: Um.
00:06:14 --> 00:06:15 Professor Fred Watson: Come on.
00:06:15 --> 00:06:18 Andrew Dunkley: All right. I Think we're going to have an
00:06:18 --> 00:06:19 added guest to the show by the sound of it.
00:06:20 --> 00:06:22 Professor Fred Watson: Good lad. Yes, sit down,
00:06:24 --> 00:06:27 make yourself at home. No idea
00:06:27 --> 00:06:28 what that was about. Sorry about that,
00:06:28 --> 00:06:29 Andrew.
00:06:29 --> 00:06:30 Andrew Dunkley: It could have just been a butterfly,
00:06:30 --> 00:06:31 Fred Watson.
00:06:31 --> 00:06:31 Who knows?
00:06:32 --> 00:06:33 Professor Fred Watson: Usually it's a leaf.
00:06:34 --> 00:06:35 Andrew Dunkley: That's what I was saying.
00:06:35 --> 00:06:36 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:06:36 --> 00:06:37 Andrew Dunkley: Or a change of breeze.
00:06:37 --> 00:06:39 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, something like that.
00:06:39 --> 00:06:39 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:06:39 --> 00:06:42 Andrew Dunkley: Um, back to our topic. That's okay. Uh,
00:06:42 --> 00:06:43 back to our topic.
00:06:43 --> 00:06:46 Uh, I just did uh, a bit of a search
00:06:46 --> 00:06:49 on um, an AI platform to see
00:06:49 --> 00:06:52 what sort of weapons could potentially be in
00:06:52 --> 00:06:53 orbit around the planet at the moment.
00:06:53 --> 00:06:55 Because they're not going to confess to what
00:06:55 --> 00:06:57 exactly they've got, I imagine. Um,
00:06:57 --> 00:07:00 but anti satellite interceptors, electro
00:07:01 --> 00:07:03 magnetic, um, or electronic warfare jamming
00:07:04 --> 00:07:06 robotic co. Orbital weapons,
00:07:07 --> 00:07:09 uh, directed energy weapons. Conventional
00:07:09 --> 00:07:12 missile launches from orbit would be
00:07:12 --> 00:07:14 possible. Uh, this one's interesting.
00:07:14 --> 00:07:16 Kinetic tungsten projectiles.
00:07:17 --> 00:07:19 Uh, you were talking about kinetic weapons.
00:07:20 --> 00:07:21 Nuclear, uh, weapons are uh,
00:07:22 --> 00:07:25 technically plaus, but as you said,
00:07:25 --> 00:07:28 outlawed by uh, the Outer Space Treaty.
00:07:28 --> 00:07:31 And chemical and biological weapons in orbit.
00:07:31 --> 00:07:33 Uh, but again, um,
00:07:34 --> 00:07:36 there's possible prohibition of those.
00:07:37 --> 00:07:39 So um, you got to wonder whether or
00:07:39 --> 00:07:42 not that particular thought.
00:07:43 --> 00:07:44 Professor Fred Watson: Did you say biological?
00:07:45 --> 00:07:46 Andrew Dunkley: No, chemical?
00:07:46 --> 00:07:46 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:07:46 --> 00:07:48 Andrew Dunkley: Chemical and biological.
00:07:48 --> 00:07:51 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. You would want to keep those out
00:07:51 --> 00:07:52 of space, I guess.
00:07:53 --> 00:07:56 Andrew Dunkley: I've been reading a book, uh, by John
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58 Birmingham, an Australian sci fi author
00:07:58 --> 00:08:01 called World War 3.0. I think I've mentioned
00:08:01 --> 00:08:04 it before. Great, great series. And
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 it involves the fact that um, uh,
00:08:08 --> 00:08:11 a uh, task force from the future ended up
00:08:11 --> 00:08:14 getting sent back to World War II and
00:08:16 --> 00:08:19 it changed the world. And uh, Stalin, because
00:08:19 --> 00:08:21 they had access to all the history of what
00:08:21 --> 00:08:23 was going to happen to them that hadn't
00:08:23 --> 00:08:25 happened yet. Uh, people like
00:08:25 --> 00:08:28 Stalin didn't end up dying as early as
00:08:29 --> 00:08:32 we know, um, and developed weapons uh,
00:08:32 --> 00:08:34 of mass destruction that were fired from
00:08:34 --> 00:08:37 space and attacked NATO with kinetic
00:08:37 --> 00:08:40 tungsten projectiles from space. So it's
00:08:40 --> 00:08:41 really interesting that that turned up on the
00:08:41 --> 00:08:42 list.
00:08:42 --> 00:08:45 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right. Ah, it's pretty sharp. Uh,
00:08:45 --> 00:08:46 is Mr. Uh, Birmingham.
00:08:47 --> 00:08:47 Andrew Dunkley: It sure is.
00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 Professor Fred Watson: Gig with him once, which was great pleasure.
00:08:50 --> 00:08:50 Yeah.
00:08:50 --> 00:08:53 Andrew Dunkley: But this is, this is a very um,
00:08:53 --> 00:08:56 dicey subject. Probably a divisive
00:08:56 --> 00:08:58 subject and one that
00:08:59 --> 00:09:02 I think is a cause for concern to
00:09:02 --> 00:09:04 um, a certain degree because
00:09:05 --> 00:09:08 um, you know, no one up until now has
00:09:08 --> 00:09:10 admitted that they have weapons in orbit.
00:09:10 --> 00:09:13 We've just assumed they probably have. The US
00:09:13 --> 00:09:16 is the first to actually say, yep, yep, we've
00:09:16 --> 00:09:19 done it. They're up there. We
00:09:19 --> 00:09:20 don't know what they are though, do we?
00:09:21 --> 00:09:22 Exactly.
00:09:22 --> 00:09:25 Professor Fred Watson: No and, and with, you know, with other
00:09:25 --> 00:09:27 nations that almost certainly have them too,
00:09:27 --> 00:09:29 uh, it's still a matter of conjecture because
00:09:29 --> 00:09:32 they're even less likely to uh,
00:09:32 --> 00:09:35 to, to give us details of what they've got in
00:09:35 --> 00:09:35 space.
00:09:36 --> 00:09:38 Andrew Dunkley: The reasoning behind this has been suggested
00:09:38 --> 00:09:41 that we, we need to um, arm ourselves
00:09:41 --> 00:09:44 to be ready for whatever threat may exist
00:09:44 --> 00:09:47 in the future. What kind of threat
00:09:47 --> 00:09:50 could develop in space? And are
00:09:50 --> 00:09:52 we talking weapons that are going to be used
00:09:52 --> 00:09:55 in space against something else in space,
00:09:55 --> 00:09:58 or are they looking at weapons that they can
00:09:58 --> 00:10:01 use from space to the
00:10:01 --> 00:10:03 ground? Aim at a target on Earth?
00:10:03 --> 00:10:04 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:10:04 --> 00:10:05 Andrew Dunkley: Or is it both?
00:10:05 --> 00:10:07 Professor Fred Watson: It could be both, but I think the former is
00:10:07 --> 00:10:10 the one that is the one they're most upfront
00:10:10 --> 00:10:13 about. Um, there was a comment uh,
00:10:15 --> 00:10:18 from uh, actually um, Dr.
00:10:18 --> 00:10:20 Malcolm Davis, who's a senior analyst at the
00:10:20 --> 00:10:22 Australian Strategic Policy Institute,
00:10:23 --> 00:10:26 um, who says Space Force is a
00:10:26 --> 00:10:29 direct response to the growing Russian
00:10:29 --> 00:10:31 and Chinese anti satellite and anti space
00:10:31 --> 00:10:34 capabilities, particularly anti satellite
00:10:34 --> 00:10:37 missile systems as displayed by the Chinese
00:10:37 --> 00:10:40 in 2007. Uh, and that's,
00:10:40 --> 00:10:43 I uh, guess um, some of the um, things
00:10:43 --> 00:10:45 that we know about because of the DEB that
00:10:45 --> 00:10:48 was released when they were tested.
00:10:48 --> 00:10:51 Uh, so uh, it's uh, you know.
00:10:51 --> 00:10:53 Ah, you're absolutely right.
00:10:53 --> 00:10:55 There's two conversations here. There's the
00:10:55 --> 00:10:58 one you know, that's up front
00:10:58 --> 00:11:00 the sort of we know nothing conversation. And
00:11:00 --> 00:11:03 yet underneath that uh, there's a very, very
00:11:03 --> 00:11:05 detailed analysis of what's going on
00:11:06 --> 00:11:09 uh, and what is basically
00:11:09 --> 00:11:11 likely to be possible. Another comment from
00:11:11 --> 00:11:14 Malcolm Davis. Uh, the decision to combine
00:11:14 --> 00:11:15 the space capabilities across the various
00:11:15 --> 00:11:18 branches, a standalone branch of the US
00:11:18 --> 00:11:20 Armed Forces which is equal to branches like
00:11:20 --> 00:11:23 the US Navy or US Air Force is an important
00:11:23 --> 00:11:25 step forward and highlights how important the
00:11:25 --> 00:11:28 US considers the space domain.
00:11:28 --> 00:11:31 So that's, yes, that's another possible uh,
00:11:31 --> 00:11:34 uh, another comment there. I mean to some
00:11:34 --> 00:11:36 extent that's really regarding the formation
00:11:36 --> 00:11:39 of the Space Force which happened some time
00:11:39 --> 00:11:39 ago.
00:11:41 --> 00:11:43 Andrew Dunkley: Would it be too long a bow to draw, no
00:11:43 --> 00:11:46 pun intended, that um, they're doing this
00:11:46 --> 00:11:47 because they know the others have to.
00:11:49 --> 00:11:52 Professor Fred Watson: Um. Yes. I don't think that's a longbow at
00:11:52 --> 00:11:54 all. I think that's very likely.
00:11:55 --> 00:11:56 Yeah.
00:11:56 --> 00:11:58 Andrew Dunkley: It's sad isn't it? I mean we shouldn't be
00:11:58 --> 00:12:00 surprised. Uh, we lock our doors
00:12:00 --> 00:12:03 because we don't trust people that walk past
00:12:03 --> 00:12:06 our houses. This is just a very
00:12:06 --> 00:12:08 elaborate and high tech orbital version of
00:12:08 --> 00:12:09 that, I think.
00:12:09 --> 00:12:11 Professor Fred Watson: Yes it is. Yeah, yeah, that's mhm.
00:12:11 --> 00:12:11 Professor Fred Watson: Right.
00:12:13 --> 00:12:15 Andrew Dunkley: And that's unfortunately human nature. Ah.
00:12:15 --> 00:12:17 And we, we have.
00:12:17 --> 00:12:19 And in fact when you, when you read um, into
00:12:19 --> 00:12:22 it deeply, the article
00:12:22 --> 00:12:24 that we're referring to in
00:12:24 --> 00:12:26 arstechnica.com says what is
00:12:26 --> 00:12:29 clear is there is now an arms race in
00:12:29 --> 00:12:32 orbit. Uh, and, and we, I
00:12:32 --> 00:12:34 didn't mention the you know, potential
00:12:34 --> 00:12:37 antagonist but uh, I don't think you would
00:12:37 --> 00:12:39 get much money back from a bet on it being
00:12:39 --> 00:12:40 Russia and China.
00:12:40 --> 00:12:41 Professor Fred Watson: Yes.
00:12:41 --> 00:12:43 Andrew Dunkley: So it's um, it's, it's no surprise
00:12:43 --> 00:12:46 at all. Uh, who knows where it leads
00:12:46 --> 00:12:47 Fred Watson, that's, that's the next
00:12:47 --> 00:12:49 question. You know what, what could happen
00:12:49 --> 00:12:52 next? Uh, ah, are we going to see
00:12:52 --> 00:12:54 at some stage in the future an all out
00:12:54 --> 00:12:57 assault, Satellites versus satellites?
00:12:58 --> 00:12:58 I don't know.
00:12:59 --> 00:13:01 Professor Fred Watson: It could um, I mean that could change our
00:13:01 --> 00:13:03 world completely because of the absolute
00:13:03 --> 00:13:06 dependence that we have on space technology.
00:13:07 --> 00:13:09 Yeah, pretty well. Everything we do,
00:13:09 --> 00:13:12 including what you and I are doing now goes
00:13:12 --> 00:13:12 through space.
00:13:14 --> 00:13:17 Andrew Dunkley: Ah, it wouldn't surprise me either if there
00:13:17 --> 00:13:20 was some major conflict in the future. Uh,
00:13:20 --> 00:13:23 one of the strategic targets would be
00:13:23 --> 00:13:26 communications, uh, satellites and
00:13:26 --> 00:13:27 military satellites.
00:13:27 --> 00:13:28 Professor Fred Watson: That's right.
00:13:28 --> 00:13:31 Andrew Dunkley: So yeah, here it is, it's all ready to go and
00:13:32 --> 00:13:34 another um, arms race is upon us.
00:13:35 --> 00:13:37 If you'd like to read about that. Uh, As I
00:13:37 --> 00:13:40 said, arstechnica.com has
00:13:40 --> 00:13:42 written a um, quite uh, significant
00:13:43 --> 00:13:46 article explaining what is happening. But
00:13:46 --> 00:13:48 yes, the United States is the first to admit
00:13:49 --> 00:13:51 that they have weapons in orbit.
00:13:52 --> 00:13:54 This is Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley and
00:13:54 --> 00:13:56 Professor Fred Watson Watson.
00:13:58 --> 00:14:00 Professor Fred Watson: I'm going to step off the land mountain.
00:14:02 --> 00:14:04 That's one small step for man,
00:14:07 --> 00:14:08 one
00:14:10 --> 00:14:13 Andrew Dunkley: Space Nuts. Okay Fred Watson, let's
00:14:13 --> 00:14:15 go to Mars. Uh, it is a um,
00:14:15 --> 00:14:18 beautiful planet. Uh, I saw a photo the other
00:14:18 --> 00:14:21 day of a sunset on,
00:14:21 --> 00:14:22 on Mars and it is just
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26 you know, nothing like we get on Earth. It's,
00:14:27 --> 00:14:29 it's a beautiful sight. And
00:14:30 --> 00:14:31 uh, interestingly enough when the sun is
00:14:31 --> 00:14:34 setting on mar, the sky turns blue as
00:14:34 --> 00:14:36 against. When the sun is setting on Earth the
00:14:36 --> 00:14:39 sky turns red. Um, what
00:14:39 --> 00:14:42 they've discovered now is that uh, maybe we
00:14:42 --> 00:14:44 should be starting to think about uh, start
00:14:44 --> 00:14:46 to think about calling it the purple planet
00:14:46 --> 00:14:48 because uh, down near the south pole there
00:14:48 --> 00:14:50 are some landscapes that just
00:14:52 --> 00:14:55 the photos, I can't describe
00:14:55 --> 00:14:57 them. That will do them justice I think is
00:14:57 --> 00:14:58 what I'm trying to say.
00:14:58 --> 00:14:59 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, that's right.
00:15:01 --> 00:15:03 I'm always hesitant Andrew to pick
00:15:03 --> 00:15:06 out stories that um, rely heavily
00:15:06 --> 00:15:08 on visual images because a lot of our
00:15:08 --> 00:15:11 listeners just listen rather than watch.
00:15:11 --> 00:15:14 Uh, but it's well worth having a
00:15:14 --> 00:15:17 look at these. Um, perhaps the best site is
00:15:17 --> 00:15:19 uh, The European Space Agency site.
00:15:20 --> 00:15:23 Uh, Purple Swirls on the Red Planet. Uh,
00:15:23 --> 00:15:25 it's basically a press release came out
00:15:25 --> 00:15:28 last um, in fact a couple of days ago. Uh,
00:15:28 --> 00:15:31 and it's a nice, it's a region around
00:15:31 --> 00:15:33 Mars south pole which is being
00:15:33 --> 00:15:36 illuminated from pretty low angle,
00:15:37 --> 00:15:39 uh as you'd expect near the south pole.
00:15:39 --> 00:15:42 Um, but the colours are ah, exactly as you've
00:15:42 --> 00:15:43 said. The colours are what make this quite
00:15:43 --> 00:15:46 dramatic. Striking swirls as they describe
00:15:46 --> 00:15:49 it, of purple, pink and red. It's a far cry
00:15:49 --> 00:15:51 from the colour palette we usually associate
00:15:51 --> 00:15:53 with the red planet. Yeah, so, yeah, very,
00:15:53 --> 00:15:56 very interesting. And I think the reds and
00:15:56 --> 00:15:59 browns, um, they do come not from
00:15:59 --> 00:16:02 uh, sunset illumination as you've
00:16:02 --> 00:16:05 already indicated. The sky is blue on Mars at
00:16:05 --> 00:16:08 sunset. Uh, but it
00:16:08 --> 00:16:10 comes from the dust, the
00:16:10 --> 00:16:12 oxidised iron, uh, the dust in the
00:16:12 --> 00:16:15 atmosphere, the dust that settles on pretty
00:16:15 --> 00:16:17 well all the surfaces just because uh,
00:16:18 --> 00:16:21 of the winds that blow on Mars. Um, and
00:16:21 --> 00:16:24 so uh, there's lots of uh,
00:16:24 --> 00:16:27 of red in perhaps
00:16:27 --> 00:16:30 all its manifestations from pink to
00:16:30 --> 00:16:32 purple, um, sometimes almost
00:16:32 --> 00:16:35 white but still with that reddish hue. Uh,
00:16:35 --> 00:16:38 and it's a region uh, called uh,
00:16:38 --> 00:16:41 Thyles Rupus. I uh, beg your
00:16:41 --> 00:16:44 pardon? Rupes. Rupes is uh, a Latin
00:16:44 --> 00:16:47 word for cliff or wall. Thales
00:16:47 --> 00:16:49 is actually uh, refers to Thule.
00:16:49 --> 00:16:52 Thule which we used to talk about. Ultima
00:16:52 --> 00:16:54 Thule was the name that we used to give to
00:16:54 --> 00:16:57 Arrokoth, the Furth known object that's
00:16:57 --> 00:17:00 been visited by a spacecraft. So,
00:17:00 --> 00:17:02 um, these are materials
00:17:03 --> 00:17:06 which uh, seem to be
00:17:06 --> 00:17:09 as well due to volcanic activity to some
00:17:09 --> 00:17:12 extent. Um, a comment on the ESA uh
00:17:12 --> 00:17:14 website says that the volcanic
00:17:14 --> 00:17:16 activity leaves environments um,
00:17:17 --> 00:17:19 rich in materials such as olivine and
00:17:19 --> 00:17:22 pyroxene, both of which are prevalent in
00:17:22 --> 00:17:25 Earth's mantle. Um, and those layers of
00:17:25 --> 00:17:28 rock actually not far below the crust of our
00:17:28 --> 00:17:30 planet, although that's quite thick. But
00:17:30 --> 00:17:32 yeah, some really interesting geology there.
00:17:32 --> 00:17:35 Um, lots of craters in the region, uh,
00:17:35 --> 00:17:38 evidence of perhaps a glacier there as well.
00:17:38 --> 00:17:40 Uh, given that we're near the, near the pole.
00:17:41 --> 00:17:43 Uh, so, um, well worth a look if our
00:17:43 --> 00:17:45 listeners want to check it out. Purple Swirls
00:17:45 --> 00:17:46 on the Red planet.
00:17:46 --> 00:17:48 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, I just sent the link to our live
00:17:48 --> 00:17:51 audience so those that are in the chat room
00:17:51 --> 00:17:53 can uh, click on it and have a look at some
00:17:53 --> 00:17:55 of these pictures. Uh, they are truly
00:17:55 --> 00:17:58 extraordinary. I think
00:17:58 --> 00:18:01 Fred Watson, uh, that um, these
00:18:01 --> 00:18:04 images were impossible in the
00:18:04 --> 00:18:06 recent past, but they are now
00:18:07 --> 00:18:10 um, more and more significant and
00:18:10 --> 00:18:12 more and more detailed because the technology
00:18:12 --> 00:18:14 is just getting so much better. The High
00:18:14 --> 00:18:16 definition cameras that are available,
00:18:17 --> 00:18:20 um, the super pixel cameras, whatever you
00:18:20 --> 00:18:22 want to call them, uh, that can take these
00:18:22 --> 00:18:25 images and create such
00:18:25 --> 00:18:27 fine detail, it's really amazing.
00:18:28 --> 00:18:31 Professor Fred Watson: Well, uh, that's certainly true, uh, but Mars
00:18:31 --> 00:18:33 Express, when was it launched? It's probably
00:18:33 --> 00:18:34 about 20 years ago I think.
00:18:36 --> 00:18:38 Um, let's just check when it
00:18:38 --> 00:18:41 went into space. I can do that.
00:18:41 --> 00:18:44 Andrew Dunkley: I'm raising you 6-2-2003.
00:18:45 --> 00:18:45 Professor Fred Watson: Got it.
00:18:45 --> 00:18:48 Yeah, there you go. 23 years ago. So that is
00:18:49 --> 00:18:51 pretty uh, legacy technology I
00:18:51 --> 00:18:54 think you'd say. And imagine what you could
00:18:54 --> 00:18:57 do now given that the high resolution
00:18:57 --> 00:19:00 cameras um, aboard Mars Express
00:19:00 --> 00:19:03 are probably only comparable, uh,
00:19:03 --> 00:19:05 with the cameras that are in our
00:19:05 --> 00:19:08 smartphones, rather than being comparable
00:19:08 --> 00:19:10 with the camera that's on the Vera C. Rubin
00:19:10 --> 00:19:13 Observatory's telescope, uh, which is the
00:19:13 --> 00:19:13 size of a bus.
00:19:14 --> 00:19:17 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, yes, I think I've said it before that
00:19:17 --> 00:19:20 uh, the technology uh, in a
00:19:20 --> 00:19:23 standard smartphone today, uh, far
00:19:23 --> 00:19:26 exceeds the computer capacity of
00:19:26 --> 00:19:28 um, the Apollo 11 mission.
00:19:30 --> 00:19:32 And, and I think it was clearly demonstrated
00:19:32 --> 00:19:35 on Apollo 13, uh, in the movie
00:19:35 --> 00:19:37 that uh, when, when they were trying to keep
00:19:37 --> 00:19:40 the astronauts alive and, and reinvent
00:19:40 --> 00:19:43 their carbon filters, uh, carbon dioxide
00:19:43 --> 00:19:45 filters and all that jazz, that
00:19:45 --> 00:19:48 um, they had to sequentially
00:19:49 --> 00:19:51 turn systems on and off so that
00:19:52 --> 00:19:54 the batteries wouldn't die and that the
00:19:54 --> 00:19:57 astronauts would be stranded. And when you
00:19:57 --> 00:19:59 listen to the dialogue, I mean the amount of
00:20:00 --> 00:20:02 power they were talking about was minuscule.
00:20:02 --> 00:20:05 And the um, computer
00:20:05 --> 00:20:08 capacity of the spacecraft we're
00:20:08 --> 00:20:10 talking about in those um, late 60s, early
00:20:10 --> 00:20:13 70s space flights was just.
00:20:14 --> 00:20:16 You couldn't fit a hundred songs on it.
00:20:17 --> 00:20:20 Professor Fred Watson: That's absolutely right. I remember, um,
00:20:20 --> 00:20:23 what year would it have been? 69, I think.
00:20:23 --> 00:20:26 The party that we had to celebrate,
00:20:27 --> 00:20:29 uh, our mainframe computer, the
00:20:29 --> 00:20:31 biggest computer almost in Scotland
00:20:32 --> 00:20:35 at St Andrews University when its memory was
00:20:35 --> 00:20:37 upgraded to 256k,
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 which. Well, it's not, it's
00:20:41 --> 00:20:43 about half a song, isn't it? Yeah, it is less
00:20:43 --> 00:20:44 than half a song.
00:20:46 --> 00:20:49 Andrew Dunkley: And now you, you drive through a city like
00:20:49 --> 00:20:51 Canberra, which I did a few weeks ago, and
00:20:51 --> 00:20:54 you, you drive past massive
00:20:54 --> 00:20:57 buildings that are the, you know, the size of
00:20:57 --> 00:20:59 shopping centres and they are 100
00:21:00 --> 00:21:02 dedicated to data storage.
00:21:02 --> 00:21:04 It is mind blowing what we hear
00:21:04 --> 00:21:07 Professor Fred Watson: a lot about, um, data centres and they're
00:21:07 --> 00:21:09 going to be a big issue. They're certainly a
00:21:09 --> 00:21:12 big issue here and in the United States about
00:21:12 --> 00:21:14 whether we want them chewing up our power and
00:21:14 --> 00:21:16 our water. Um, they are very, very power
00:21:16 --> 00:21:17 hungry.
00:21:17 --> 00:21:19 Andrew Dunkley: In particular, I'm not sure I mentioned it
00:21:19 --> 00:21:22 but they uh, uh, I was listening to
00:21:22 --> 00:21:24 two fellows that I was playing golf with down
00:21:24 --> 00:21:26 in Canberra one day that were talking about
00:21:26 --> 00:21:29 one of the data centres and they said, um,
00:21:29 --> 00:21:31 did you go into the wind tunnel? And
00:21:32 --> 00:21:35 uh, my friend said, yeah, I did. It's where
00:21:35 --> 00:21:37 all the hot air gets blown
00:21:37 --> 00:21:40 out of the building. Um, and
00:21:40 --> 00:21:42 I said it's like walking through the Zaharov
00:21:42 --> 00:21:45 desert. It's just so hot in that tunnel
00:21:45 --> 00:21:48 because of um, the amount of air that's
00:21:48 --> 00:21:51 required to cool the servers that are storing
00:21:51 --> 00:21:54 the data. And it's
00:21:54 --> 00:21:56 big business now. It's huge.
00:21:57 --> 00:21:59 We're getting a bit off track but uh, we're
00:21:59 --> 00:22:02 talking about the advances in technology and
00:22:02 --> 00:22:05 in terms of um, space
00:22:06 --> 00:22:09 photography, uh, um, it's probably
00:22:09 --> 00:22:11 going ahead in leaps and bounds.
00:22:11 --> 00:22:13 Professor Fred Watson: But just um, recapping what we are talking
00:22:13 --> 00:22:16 about, that's as we were saying,
00:22:16 --> 00:22:18 that's 23 year old cameras at least that are
00:22:18 --> 00:22:21 on Mars Express. But
00:22:21 --> 00:22:24 what will have improved is the processing
00:22:24 --> 00:22:26 technology to get the very best images
00:22:26 --> 00:22:29 out of those. And perhaps that's one reason
00:22:29 --> 00:22:31 why we're seeing these glorious images
00:22:31 --> 00:22:34 of um, Mars, Southern moon,
00:22:34 --> 00:22:35 polar region.
00:22:35 --> 00:22:37 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, on that I took some photos uh,
00:22:37 --> 00:22:40 with my smart telescope the other night.
00:22:40 --> 00:22:43 I've got some really lovely images and I took
00:22:43 --> 00:22:45 a really nice one of the moon because it was
00:22:46 --> 00:22:48 um, I don't think it was a full moon that
00:22:48 --> 00:22:51 night, but it was damn close and I,
00:22:52 --> 00:22:55 I thought I'll see what um, ChatGPT
00:22:55 --> 00:22:57 can do to this. So I, I put the photo in
00:22:57 --> 00:23:00 ChatGPT and I just said can you sharpen this,
00:23:00 --> 00:23:03 enhance it a little? I don't want to lose
00:23:04 --> 00:23:06 the character of the image but I, you know,
00:23:06 --> 00:23:09 can you, can you ramp up the um,
00:23:09 --> 00:23:12 uh, the image a bit so that it um, it's got,
00:23:12 --> 00:23:14 it's a bit more striking. Wow.
00:23:14 --> 00:23:17 What it did was amazing. Um, yeah, I
00:23:17 --> 00:23:19 should send you the two shots so you can see
00:23:19 --> 00:23:19 the
00:23:19 --> 00:23:21 Professor Fred Watson: difference, but um, to see them.
00:23:21 --> 00:23:23 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, yeah, it was, it was quite remarkable
00:23:23 --> 00:23:26 what it did. Um, so I was
00:23:26 --> 00:23:28 um, yeah, I was quite, uh,
00:23:28 --> 00:23:31 quite chuffed with how that turned out. So
00:23:31 --> 00:23:33 even if you get a really shonky image,
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36 sometimes you can just load into
00:23:36 --> 00:23:39 uh, an AI platform and say, well,
00:23:39 --> 00:23:42 can you do this? And wham, most of the time
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44 it can. Remarkable what's available to
00:23:45 --> 00:23:47 us now. And it brings me back to that
00:23:48 --> 00:23:48 old question.
00:23:48 --> 00:23:51 If we can do this as everyday people in
00:23:51 --> 00:23:54 our homes with the AI technology
00:23:54 --> 00:23:57 that's available, what kind of AI technology
00:23:57 --> 00:23:59 are they developing or have they developed
00:23:59 --> 00:24:02 for military services
00:24:02 --> 00:24:05 and all of those kinds of um,
00:24:06 --> 00:24:08 things you Just, you know, it's probably way
00:24:08 --> 00:24:09 beyond our imaginations already.
00:24:11 --> 00:24:13 Professor Fred Watson: Indeed, I think. Yeah.
00:24:13 --> 00:24:15 Andrew Dunkley: Anyway, uh, yes, if you would like to see
00:24:15 --> 00:24:18 those ESA images of
00:24:18 --> 00:24:20 Mars around the South Pole region, uh, they
00:24:20 --> 00:24:23 are absolutely beautiful and you can uh, go
00:24:23 --> 00:24:25 to the ESA.int
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 website and check it out. You're listening to
00:24:29 --> 00:24:31 Space Nuts, a, um,
00:24:32 --> 00:24:35 standard edition with Andrew Dunkley head
00:24:35 --> 00:24:36 Professor Fred Watson Watson.
00:24:38 --> 00:24:39 Professor Fred Watson: Okay.
00:24:39 --> 00:24:41 Professor Fred Watson: We checked all four systems and being with a
00:24:41 --> 00:24:42 girl, Space nets.
00:24:42 --> 00:24:44 Andrew Dunkley: I was about to say Q and A edition, but
00:24:44 --> 00:24:47 that's, that's next. We do that next. I'm
00:24:47 --> 00:24:49 getting ahead of myself. Um,
00:24:50 --> 00:24:53 we go from a very colourful place to a not so
00:24:53 --> 00:24:54 colourful place. Although the, you know, when
00:24:54 --> 00:24:56 you talk to the astronauts who have walked on
00:24:56 --> 00:24:58 the uh, moon, they go, hang on a minute. It
00:24:58 --> 00:25:00 is actually quite colourful here. You just
00:25:00 --> 00:25:03 gotta, you know, be pretty close. Uh, yes,
00:25:03 --> 00:25:05 the moon, uh, the reason it's in the news at
00:25:05 --> 00:25:07 the moment, to quote my friend Fred Watson
00:25:07 --> 00:25:10 Watson, is because they've found a new hole,
00:25:10 --> 00:25:13 uh, a crater and it was almost
00:25:13 --> 00:25:14 found by accident.
00:25:14 --> 00:25:14 Fred Watson.
00:25:15 --> 00:25:17 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right. It's people trolling
00:25:17 --> 00:25:18 through and uh, it's actually NASA
00:25:18 --> 00:25:21 researchers who are doing this using the
00:25:22 --> 00:25:24 uh, images from NASA's Lunar
00:25:24 --> 00:25:27 Reconnaissance Orbiter, uh, which again goes
00:25:27 --> 00:25:30 back probably a couple of decades, uh, and
00:25:30 --> 00:25:32 is a phenomenal device for
00:25:33 --> 00:25:35 imaging the lunar surface. Um,
00:25:36 --> 00:25:38 so uh, what they do, the
00:25:38 --> 00:25:41 Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, it surveys the
00:25:41 --> 00:25:44 moon's surface on a regular basis and so you
00:25:44 --> 00:25:46 can tell if something changes.
00:25:47 --> 00:25:49 And this basically is
00:25:49 --> 00:25:52 something that has changed. There has been
00:25:53 --> 00:25:55 uh, an impact on the moon that's
00:25:55 --> 00:25:58 created a crater quarter of a kilometre
00:25:58 --> 00:26:01 across, 222 metres, uh, and
00:26:01 --> 00:26:04 up to 43 metres deep. So this is a
00:26:04 --> 00:26:07 big hole, um, and it's actually the
00:26:07 --> 00:26:09 biggest known impact crater that has been
00:26:10 --> 00:26:13 created in recent times. Uh,
00:26:14 --> 00:26:16 it fell ah, between uh, two
00:26:17 --> 00:26:19 surveys or scans of the moon. So we've got,
00:26:20 --> 00:26:23 we don't have a precise date for it but we
00:26:23 --> 00:26:26 do have um, a pair
00:26:26 --> 00:26:28 of dates between which we know uh,
00:26:28 --> 00:26:31 when that happened. Uh, and
00:26:31 --> 00:26:34 I've lost the dates now on my scre screen,
00:26:34 --> 00:26:36 uh so I'll have to rely on you to tell me
00:26:36 --> 00:26:38 what they are. But it was a relatively short
00:26:38 --> 00:26:41 interval between the two dates
00:26:41 --> 00:26:44 that define when this event
00:26:44 --> 00:26:45 took place.
00:26:45 --> 00:26:47 Andrew Dunkley: I'm looking, I'm looking, uh, somewhere
00:26:47 --> 00:26:50 between April 11th and May
00:26:50 --> 00:26:52 22nd, 2024 they think.
00:26:53 --> 00:26:55 Professor Fred Watson: Yes. Okay, so these are uh,
00:26:55 --> 00:26:57 images that were taken a couple of years ago,
00:26:57 --> 00:26:59 bit more than a couple of years ago but
00:26:59 --> 00:27:01 nevertheless, uh, still yielding
00:27:02 --> 00:27:05 uh, new data and so it's, and uh,
00:27:05 --> 00:27:08 what's I think more striking about this, that
00:27:08 --> 00:27:10 the diameter and depth of the crater
00:27:11 --> 00:27:13 uh, are quite impressive. But
00:27:14 --> 00:27:16 when you look at wide angle images
00:27:17 --> 00:27:20 um, you can see that there
00:27:20 --> 00:27:22 is debris spread around for
00:27:22 --> 00:27:25 quite um, you know, quite a big
00:27:25 --> 00:27:28 radius, something like seven kilometres wide,
00:27:29 --> 00:27:31 uh, where you've got basically
00:27:32 --> 00:27:34 a lower temperature on the moon's surface.
00:27:34 --> 00:27:37 And that comes about because the, the topsoil
00:27:38 --> 00:27:40 has been loosened. Uh, it's the
00:27:41 --> 00:27:44 um, you know, the top few, only the top
00:27:44 --> 00:27:46 few centimetres, uh, that have been
00:27:47 --> 00:27:49 stirred up and that's enough to
00:27:49 --> 00:27:52 reveal a different thermal signature from
00:27:52 --> 00:27:55 the moon, uh, so it's actually cooler.
00:27:55 --> 00:27:58 There is a comment um, uh, uh
00:27:58 --> 00:28:01 in the report on this that I
00:28:01 --> 00:28:04 read uh, which is um, that
00:28:04 --> 00:28:07 but due to uh,
00:28:07 --> 00:28:09 asteroid impacts and the material that they
00:28:09 --> 00:28:12 eject the top couple of inches
00:28:12 --> 00:28:15 of lunar soil or the top inch or so
00:28:15 --> 00:28:18 it's being overturned every
00:28:18 --> 00:28:21 80 years. Uh, and that's
00:28:21 --> 00:28:24 not that long because we used to think
00:28:24 --> 00:28:27 that the Apollo astronauts footprints would
00:28:27 --> 00:28:29 last forever but they won't. They'll
00:28:29 --> 00:28:32 be recirculated by debris
00:28:32 --> 00:28:35 that is um, probably pushed up into
00:28:35 --> 00:28:37 the lunar environment, not the lunar
00:28:37 --> 00:28:38 atmosphere because there isn't one, but
00:28:38 --> 00:28:40 debris from collisions.
00:28:40 --> 00:28:42 And I think the other important thing about
00:28:42 --> 00:28:44 this story is that that
00:28:45 --> 00:28:48 debris, of course, and knowing about debris
00:28:48 --> 00:28:50 like that, it's going to play into how you
00:28:50 --> 00:28:53 defend um, a moon base. If you've got a
00:28:53 --> 00:28:55 moon base on the surface of the moon, no
00:28:55 --> 00:28:57 matter what nationality you're talking about,
00:28:58 --> 00:29:00 uh, you're going to need the structures to be
00:29:01 --> 00:29:03 reasonably robust uh to not
00:29:03 --> 00:29:06 to worry about damage
00:29:06 --> 00:29:09 from material debris that's been
00:29:10 --> 00:29:12 kicked uh, up by impacts on the lunar surface
00:29:12 --> 00:29:14 because those impacts will continue to
00:29:14 --> 00:29:16 happen. There's no atmosphere to slow them
00:29:16 --> 00:29:16 down.
00:29:16 --> 00:29:19 Andrew Dunkley: Now what do they think caused this
00:29:19 --> 00:29:20 crater?
00:29:21 --> 00:29:24 Professor Fred Watson: An object? Um, I think it
00:29:24 --> 00:29:27 was a few metres. I've
00:29:27 --> 00:29:29 got two separate reports on this and I think
00:29:29 --> 00:29:31 that's in the other one. I think it is um,
00:29:32 --> 00:29:34 um, probably a few tens of metres across.
00:29:34 --> 00:29:35 Professor Fred Watson: Right.
00:29:35 --> 00:29:37 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, and that's the
00:29:38 --> 00:29:41 um, you know that that's typical of the
00:29:41 --> 00:29:44 kind of amount of kinetic energy that will be
00:29:44 --> 00:29:46 in uh, something that size. Let me see if I
00:29:46 --> 00:29:49 can find that number. Probably
00:29:49 --> 00:29:51 can, maybe can.
00:29:52 --> 00:29:54 Andrew Dunkley: Speaking, speaking of numbers, this, this
00:29:54 --> 00:29:57 crate is so deep you could put um, three
00:29:57 --> 00:29:59 school buses end to end.
00:29:59 --> 00:30:02 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, I saw that. It's got
00:30:02 --> 00:30:04 to be American school buses.
00:30:04 --> 00:30:05 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. And wellness.
00:30:05 --> 00:30:05 Professor Fred Watson: That's right.
00:30:06 --> 00:30:07 Andrew Dunkley: And they've got to be yellow.
00:30:08 --> 00:30:10 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, I can't find the estimate of
00:30:10 --> 00:30:13 um, the size of the impactor was, but
00:30:13 --> 00:30:16 it would be certainly, um, you know,
00:30:16 --> 00:30:19 something that um, is significant
00:30:19 --> 00:30:21 enough to uh,
00:30:22 --> 00:30:24 basically provide that amount of energy, uh,
00:30:25 --> 00:30:26 to make a hole that big.
00:30:26 --> 00:30:29 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. And the other thing is it hits the moon
00:30:29 --> 00:30:31 harder than it hits Earth because there's
00:30:31 --> 00:30:32 nothing to slow it down.
00:30:32 --> 00:30:33 Professor Fred Watson: That's correct.
00:30:34 --> 00:30:36 Andrew Dunkley: So it's much more explosive on the lunar
00:30:36 --> 00:30:39 surface than if something like this, uh,
00:30:39 --> 00:30:41 hit Earth. In fact, if this particular rock
00:30:41 --> 00:30:44 had hit Earth, it may not have done much at
00:30:44 --> 00:30:44 all.
00:30:45 --> 00:30:47 Professor Fred Watson: Well, it probably would have exploded in the
00:30:47 --> 00:30:50 atmosphere. Yeah, that's the thing, you
00:30:50 --> 00:30:52 know, like the, um, Chelyabinsk
00:30:52 --> 00:30:55 event back in 2013, was it that,
00:30:55 --> 00:30:58 uh, was something 30 metres across that
00:30:58 --> 00:31:00 exploded in the atmosphere. But if it hit the
00:31:00 --> 00:31:02 ground on the moon, it might have been made
00:31:02 --> 00:31:04 quite a big hole. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, I
00:31:04 --> 00:31:06 can't find, um, an estimate of the, um, the
00:31:07 --> 00:31:10 size of that from, uh, the size
00:31:10 --> 00:31:12 of the impact crater. But, uh, I'm sure it's
00:31:12 --> 00:31:15 uh, not that far away to
00:31:15 --> 00:31:16 discover it.
00:31:16 --> 00:31:18 Andrew Dunkley: Um, let me see if I can find it.
00:31:19 --> 00:31:21 Professor Fred Watson: Thank you. Thank you. That'd be very good.
00:31:22 --> 00:31:24 Andrew Dunkley: That hit the moon
00:31:25 --> 00:31:27 in 20,
00:31:27 --> 00:31:30 25, 20, 24. Uh,
00:31:30 --> 00:31:31 24.
00:31:31 --> 00:31:34 Professor Fred Watson: Sorry, that's what you read before.
00:31:34 --> 00:31:36 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, yeah. Um,
00:31:37 --> 00:31:40 okay, so, uh, yeah, Magechen
00:31:40 --> 00:31:42 crater. And
00:31:43 --> 00:31:46 they're saying the impactor was roughly 20 to
00:31:46 --> 00:31:47 30 metres across.
00:31:47 --> 00:31:50 Professor Fred Watson: There you go. So, um, what did I just say? 30
00:31:50 --> 00:31:52 metres was the, uh, size of the
00:31:52 --> 00:31:55 Chelyabinsk, uh, impactor. Uh, and this is
00:31:55 --> 00:31:56 probably similar.
00:31:56 --> 00:31:59 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, so a similar kind of rock. So this
00:31:59 --> 00:32:01 is probably one we didn't see in advance by
00:32:01 --> 00:32:02 the sound of it.
00:32:02 --> 00:32:05 Professor Fred Watson: Um, that's correct. Uh, a
00:32:05 --> 00:32:08 30 metre object seen from the distance
00:32:08 --> 00:32:10 of Earth will be virtually invisible.
00:32:13 --> 00:32:15 Bearing in mind that we can't see the, you
00:32:15 --> 00:32:17 know, the landing, the Apollo
00:32:17 --> 00:32:19 landing sites with any terrestrial
00:32:19 --> 00:32:21 telescopes, we can certainly see them from
00:32:21 --> 00:32:23 Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter and see what's
00:32:23 --> 00:32:26 left there, but can't see it from a. Yeah,
00:32:26 --> 00:32:26 okay.
00:32:27 --> 00:32:30 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, you can read all about it, uh, on the
00:32:30 --> 00:32:32 NASA website. Uh, it's a
00:32:32 --> 00:32:35 fantastic site to visit. So much great stuff
00:32:35 --> 00:32:37 there. Uh, that brings us to
00:32:37 --> 00:32:39 the end of our show. Fred Watson, thank you
00:32:39 --> 00:32:40 so much.
00:32:40 --> 00:32:43 Professor Fred Watson: Oh, it's a pleasure, Andrew. Always good to
00:32:43 --> 00:32:44 talk about these things, even when they are
00:32:44 --> 00:32:45 weapons in space.
00:32:45 --> 00:32:48 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, yeah, well, we know now, so, um,
00:32:50 --> 00:32:51 Very good. We'll catch you soon, Fred Watson.
00:32:51 --> 00:32:54 Thank you. Um, and in the meantime, visit us
00:32:54 --> 00:32:56 online at spacenutspodcast.com or
00:32:56 --> 00:32:59 spacenuts IO have a look around, visit the
00:32:59 --> 00:33:02 shop, Send, um, us messages and questions. On
00:33:02 --> 00:33:04 the Ask me anything button at the top, it's
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00:33:09 --> 00:33:12 Newsfeed if you like. And please
00:33:12 --> 00:33:15 leave reviews wherever you listen to or
00:33:15 --> 00:33:17 watch us. And thanks to Huw in the studio,
00:33:17 --> 00:33:19 who couldn't be with us. I've got to go bail
00:33:19 --> 00:33:21 him out again because he's been throwing
00:33:21 --> 00:33:23 large rocks at people. And from me, Andrew
00:33:23 --> 00:33:25 Dunkley, thanks for your company. We'll see
00:33:25 --> 00:33:28 you on the next episode of Space Nuts. Bye
00:33:28 --> 00:33:28 bye.
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