This episode is brought to with the support of Incogni....when your online privacy and security becomes important, you need Incogni.To check our special discount deal, visit www.incogni.com/spacenuts
If you'd like to check out our special offer from NordVPN, our official VPN provider, just visit www.nordvpn.com/spacenuts or use the coupon code SPACENUTS at checkout.
Both offers come with a 30-day money back guarantee.
Quantum Quandaries and Cosmic Curiosities: Your Questions Answered
In this engaging Q&A episode of Space Nuts, hosts Heidi Campo and Professor Fred Watson tackle an array of thought-provoking questions from listeners that span the realms of quantum physics and cosmic phenomena. From the nature of photons to the mysteries of black holes, this episode is a treasure trove of insights that will leave you pondering the universe.
Episode Highlights:
- Photons and Quantum Energy Levels: The episode kicks off with a question from Greg in Minnesota about the energy levels of photons as they travel through expanding space. Fred explains the nuances of photon energy, redshift, and how it relates to different reference frames, providing clarity on this complex topic.
- Is the Universe Inside a Black Hole? Russell from the UK poses a challenging question about the universe potentially existing within a black hole. Fred discusses the speculative nature of this idea, the implications of being inside an event horizon, and why the universe behaves as it does, despite such theories.
- The Gravity of an Apple: Paul from Melbourne wonders if the Earth is slightly tugged by an apple falling from a tree. Fred affirms that gravity works both ways, offering a fascinating look at the mutual attraction between masses, while sharing a historical tidbit about Newton's apple tree.
- Solar Orbiter and Ecliptic Orbits: Mikey from Illinois inquires about the European Space Agency's Solar Orbiter and its unique orbit outside the ecliptic plane. Fred elaborates on the spacecraft's mission, its groundbreaking images of the sun's poles, and how comets also traverse the solar system in non-ecliptic orbits.
For more Space Nuts, including our continuously updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on Facebook, X, YouTube Music Music, Tumblr, Instagram, and TikTok. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favorite platform.
If you’d like to help support Space Nuts and join our growing family of insiders for commercial-free episodes and more, visit spacenutspodcast.com/about
Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
Become a supporter of this podcast for access to commercial free editions: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Heidi Campo: Welcome back to another exciting Q A
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 episode of space nuts.
00:00:05 --> 00:00:07 Voice Over Guy: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 10, 9. Ignition
00:00:10 --> 00:00:13 sequence time. Space nuts. 5, 4, 3,
00:00:13 --> 00:00:16 2. 1. 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4,
00:00:16 --> 00:00:18 3, 2, 1. Space nuts.
00:00:18 --> 00:00:20 Astronauts report. It feels good.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 Heidi Campo: I'm your host for this episode, Heidi Campo.
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 Filling in for Andrew Dunkley. Joining me
00:00:27 --> 00:00:29 today is Professor Fred Watson,
00:00:29 --> 00:00:32 astronomer at large. How are you today, Fred?
00:00:33 --> 00:00:36 Professor Fred Watson: I'm fine, thanks. I'm still at large, uh,
00:00:36 --> 00:00:38 which is always good. Uh, no, very well,
00:00:38 --> 00:00:40 thank you Heidi, and I hope you are too.
00:00:40 --> 00:00:43 How's the weather doing in Houston? You were
00:00:43 --> 00:00:46 concerned about the heat and the
00:00:46 --> 00:00:47 rain and.
00:00:47 --> 00:00:49 Heidi Campo: Oh, it's been beautiful. Last, uh, couple
00:00:49 --> 00:00:51 days have really been nice. I actually sat
00:00:51 --> 00:00:54 out, um, on the, on that patio. We have a
00:00:54 --> 00:00:56 little patio in our backyard. Had a little
00:00:56 --> 00:00:59 sparkling water, watched my dog play in the
00:00:59 --> 00:01:01 yard and it was pretty nice. I think they
00:01:01 --> 00:01:03 sprayed for the mosquitoes recently. So those
00:01:03 --> 00:01:03 have calmed down.
00:01:05 --> 00:01:06 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right.
00:01:06 --> 00:01:09 Heidi Campo: And no hurricanes yet, which is, let's knock
00:01:09 --> 00:01:12 uh, on wood because that's my favorite part
00:01:12 --> 00:01:13 right now is not having.
00:01:13 --> 00:01:15 Professor Fred Watson: Hurricanes as it would be.
00:01:16 --> 00:01:17 Yeah.
00:01:18 --> 00:01:21 Heidi Campo: All right, well, we have uh, our first
00:01:21 --> 00:01:23 question today is uh, from
00:01:23 --> 00:01:26 Greg from Minnesota, also a
00:01:26 --> 00:01:29 hurricane free zone. You're safe
00:01:29 --> 00:01:31 from the hurricanes, Greg. I hope you're
00:01:31 --> 00:01:33 enjoying not having them in Minnesota.
00:01:34 --> 00:01:37 And uh, Greg says, g' day, Fred.
00:01:37 --> 00:01:40 And howdy Heidi. I'm Greg from
00:01:40 --> 00:01:42 Minnesota usa and I have a question about
00:01:42 --> 00:01:45 photons and quantum energy levels.
00:01:45 --> 00:01:48 We know that energy is quanticized,
00:01:48 --> 00:01:51 that therefore photons can only exist
00:01:51 --> 00:01:54 at certain discrete energy levels. We also
00:01:54 --> 00:01:56 know that space is expanding and that travel
00:01:56 --> 00:01:58 traveling through the expanding space saps
00:01:58 --> 00:02:01 energy from the traveling photons. What
00:02:01 --> 00:02:04 happens when a photon has been traveling so
00:02:04 --> 00:02:06 long, so far that the energy it
00:02:06 --> 00:02:09 carries drops below the minimum allowed
00:02:09 --> 00:02:11 quantum energy level? Does it
00:02:11 --> 00:02:14 disappear? I love the podcast and I'm looking
00:02:14 --> 00:02:15 forward to your answer.
00:02:17 --> 00:02:20 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, this is, ah, I think this is a great
00:02:20 --> 00:02:22 question and it certainly had me scratching
00:02:22 --> 00:02:25 my head, Heidi. Uh, it sent me
00:02:25 --> 00:02:28 to um, the Fermilab,
00:02:28 --> 00:02:30 which of course is uh, one of the
00:02:31 --> 00:02:34 key, uh, nuclear physics facilities
00:02:34 --> 00:02:36 in your country. Uh, they
00:02:37 --> 00:02:39 um, have a marvelous website called
00:02:40 --> 00:02:42 uh, Physics Questions People Ask Fermilab.
00:02:42 --> 00:02:45 And I think the, the
00:02:45 --> 00:02:48 nuances of the answer, uh, are probably best
00:02:48 --> 00:02:51 expressed by uh, the, the
00:02:51 --> 00:02:54 um, the account that I've
00:02:54 --> 00:02:57 got in front of me which is by uh, one
00:02:57 --> 00:03:00 of their uh, PhD physicists. In fact,
00:03:00 --> 00:03:03 uh, Lila is the editor of the Office of
00:03:03 --> 00:03:05 Public Affairs, Lila Belcora,
00:03:06 --> 00:03:08 who says, and I think this
00:03:09 --> 00:03:11 puts it a little bit into
00:03:11 --> 00:03:14 perspective let's put aside the
00:03:14 --> 00:03:16 idea of a photon losing energy
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19 in transit as an explanation for
00:03:19 --> 00:03:22 redshift. A photon doesn't lose energy
00:03:22 --> 00:03:25 unless it collides with a particle. Uh,
00:03:26 --> 00:03:27 photons can scatter off interstellar
00:03:27 --> 00:03:30 electrons, for example. Uh,
00:03:30 --> 00:03:33 photons carry energy, but they don't lose
00:03:33 --> 00:03:35 energy just because they travel.
00:03:36 --> 00:03:38 And this is the key to it, as
00:03:39 --> 00:03:41 Lila says, the key to understanding the
00:03:41 --> 00:03:44 dilemma of a redshifted photon.
00:03:44 --> 00:03:46 And that's to say, one that's traveling
00:03:46 --> 00:03:49 through space, uh, through expanding space.
00:03:49 --> 00:03:51 And so the space has expanded, the photon has
00:03:51 --> 00:03:54 been redshifted. It's got, uh, a lower energy
00:03:54 --> 00:03:57 level. Uh, the key to understanding that
00:03:57 --> 00:03:59 dilemma is that not all observers will
00:03:59 --> 00:04:02 measure the same energy of the photon. Let's
00:04:02 --> 00:04:04 say an observer is traveling with a star or
00:04:04 --> 00:04:06 galaxy and sees a photon in the yellow
00:04:06 --> 00:04:09 portion of the spectrum. An observer who is
00:04:09 --> 00:04:11 moving with respect to the star, and it
00:04:11 --> 00:04:13 doesn't matter if it's a star or the observer
00:04:13 --> 00:04:16 moving away sees the same photon in the
00:04:16 --> 00:04:19 red part of the spectrum. That's okay. It
00:04:19 --> 00:04:20 doesn't violate the principle of
00:04:20 --> 00:04:23 conservation, conservation of energy, because
00:04:23 --> 00:04:25 they make their measurements in different
00:04:25 --> 00:04:28 reference frames. So,
00:04:28 --> 00:04:31 um, that's a complicated way of
00:04:31 --> 00:04:33 saying, uh, that,
00:04:33 --> 00:04:35 um, uh,
00:04:36 --> 00:04:39 yes, uh, photon energy is quantized,
00:04:39 --> 00:04:41 but it's never going to reach a stage
00:04:42 --> 00:04:44 when it falls, uh, below
00:04:44 --> 00:04:47 the minimum allowed quantum energy level.
00:04:47 --> 00:04:50 So it doesn't disappear. Um, I
00:04:50 --> 00:04:53 hope, Greg, that explains, uh, the answer to
00:04:53 --> 00:04:55 your question. Uh, it's one that had me
00:04:55 --> 00:04:57 scratching my head for quite a while. And I
00:04:57 --> 00:05:00 thought that Lila's comment in the Fermilab
00:05:00 --> 00:05:03 website actually put it very well. Uh, if you
00:05:03 --> 00:05:04 want to follow up on that, it's pretty easy
00:05:04 --> 00:05:07 to find. Just look for inquiring minds,
00:05:07 --> 00:05:10 physics questions people ask Fermilab, and,
00:05:10 --> 00:05:13 uh, uh, have a look at it. It's um, very
00:05:13 --> 00:05:16 nicely written and perhaps lays
00:05:16 --> 00:05:17 to rest some of the things that we do think
00:05:17 --> 00:05:20 of. We take for granted that photons are
00:05:20 --> 00:05:22 losing energy because they get red sh.
00:05:22 --> 00:05:24 Shifted, but they're only redshifted in our
00:05:24 --> 00:05:27 frame of reference. Ah, that's the
00:05:27 --> 00:05:30 interesting nuance, uh, to this question.
00:05:32 --> 00:05:35 Heidi Campo: Yeah, I'm still wrapping my head around that
00:05:35 --> 00:05:38 one. That's so interesting. Whenever you go
00:05:38 --> 00:05:41 anywhere close to the world of quantum,
00:05:41 --> 00:05:44 it's just everything changes. All the
00:05:44 --> 00:05:44 rules change.
00:05:45 --> 00:05:48 Professor Fred Watson: That's right, they do. Um, a lot of
00:05:48 --> 00:05:51 it's completely counterintuitive, uh, but
00:05:51 --> 00:05:54 it seems to work. We, uh,
00:05:54 --> 00:05:57 hear about in quantum physics, uh, for
00:05:57 --> 00:06:00 example, entanglement, this idea that
00:06:00 --> 00:06:02 you can bring two particles together and
00:06:02 --> 00:06:04 they'll behave as one particle. Even though
00:06:04 --> 00:06:07 you then separate them, uh, they still think
00:06:07 --> 00:06:10 they're one particle. That is quite
00:06:10 --> 00:06:11 counterintuitive.
00:06:12 --> 00:06:15 Heidi Campo: Yeah, there was a cute little movie that came
00:06:15 --> 00:06:18 out recently. Um, it had Chris Pratt
00:06:18 --> 00:06:21 and. Oh, my gosh, everyone's
00:06:21 --> 00:06:22 gonna make fun of me because I can't remember
00:06:22 --> 00:06:24 the girl's name. She's the girl who's from
00:06:24 --> 00:06:27 Stranger Things. She's very, she's very
00:06:27 --> 00:06:29 famous right now. But their whole. The whole
00:06:29 --> 00:06:32 premise was once particles
00:06:32 --> 00:06:35 touch, then they're never separated. And it
00:06:35 --> 00:06:37 was kind of a, like a love story type thing.
00:06:37 --> 00:06:39 It was kind of cute. But, yeah, once
00:06:39 --> 00:06:41 particles have. Have touched, you never lose
00:06:41 --> 00:06:42 that connection. It was kind of cute.
00:06:44 --> 00:06:47 Um, well, our next question is from
00:06:47 --> 00:06:49 Russell, and this is an audio question.
00:06:51 --> 00:06:53 So we are. I'm going to give Fred a second to
00:06:53 --> 00:06:56 cue that up, and then we are going to play
00:06:56 --> 00:06:58 that question for you guys to listen to you
00:06:58 --> 00:07:00 now. And then Fred is going to answer that
00:07:00 --> 00:07:03 question for all of you. So here is
00:07:03 --> 00:07:04 Russell's question.
00:07:05 --> 00:07:07 Mikey: Hello, Fred and Andrew. This is Russell, uh,
00:07:08 --> 00:07:11 from Reading in the uk. Um, there's been a
00:07:11 --> 00:07:13 recent suggestion that the universe is inside
00:07:13 --> 00:07:16 a black hole. But my understanding is that
00:07:16 --> 00:07:18 the event horizon of a black hole is a. Not a
00:07:18 --> 00:07:21 thin membrane, but extends all the way down
00:07:21 --> 00:07:24 to the singularity. Um, this means that
00:07:24 --> 00:07:25 light and everything else can only travel in
00:07:25 --> 00:07:27 one direction, which is towards the
00:07:27 --> 00:07:30 singularity. So it would be immediately
00:07:30 --> 00:07:32 obvious if we were inside a black hole,
00:07:32 --> 00:07:34 because you could only see in one direction,
00:07:34 --> 00:07:37 which is away from the singularity.
00:07:38 --> 00:07:40 What have I missed? Thanks for the great
00:07:40 --> 00:07:40 show.
00:07:40 --> 00:07:42 Professor Fred Watson: So Russell's asking what he missed,
00:07:44 --> 00:07:45 and I don't think he missed anything,
00:07:45 --> 00:07:47 actually, because, um,
00:07:49 --> 00:07:51 you know, the idea of the
00:07:51 --> 00:07:54 universe being a black
00:07:54 --> 00:07:56 hole or the whole universe being within a
00:07:56 --> 00:07:59 black hole is extremely,
00:07:59 --> 00:08:02 um, speculative and
00:08:03 --> 00:08:05 really does not have the,
00:08:06 --> 00:08:09 uh, imprimatur of the scientific
00:08:09 --> 00:08:11 community. And that's just another way of
00:08:11 --> 00:08:14 saying nobody believes it. Um, and so,
00:08:14 --> 00:08:17 um, uh, you know, questions like that, I
00:08:17 --> 00:08:19 think are very good ones because intuitively
00:08:19 --> 00:08:22 you would expect that to be the case.
00:08:22 --> 00:08:25 Now, um, just pursuing this a bit
00:08:25 --> 00:08:28 further. The people who
00:08:28 --> 00:08:31 work on theories that perhaps the universe is
00:08:31 --> 00:08:34 inside a black hole, they are
00:08:34 --> 00:08:37 not stupid. So they're
00:08:37 --> 00:08:39 people who have big, great
00:08:39 --> 00:08:42 insights in physics. Uh, and so I
00:08:42 --> 00:08:45 suspect, um, their thinking is
00:08:45 --> 00:08:48 along the lines that if we are,
00:08:49 --> 00:08:51 if we're in a black hole, we're not just
00:08:51 --> 00:08:53 within the event horizon. We
00:08:53 --> 00:08:56 may well be within the singularity. Because
00:08:56 --> 00:08:59 a black hole is a singularity. It's A point
00:08:59 --> 00:09:01 where physics breaks down. Uh, it's
00:09:01 --> 00:09:04 basically a point of zero dimensions
00:09:04 --> 00:09:07 and infinite density. Um, are
00:09:07 --> 00:09:09 we inside that? Uh,
00:09:10 --> 00:09:12 if so, that would mean all bets are off. We
00:09:12 --> 00:09:15 wouldn't have any idea how physics worked.
00:09:15 --> 00:09:17 But the universe seems to be pretty well
00:09:17 --> 00:09:19 behaved and we can understand it from the
00:09:19 --> 00:09:21 physical laws that we have. Um, if we're
00:09:21 --> 00:09:24 inside the event horizon, then we should see
00:09:24 --> 00:09:27 evidence somewhere of the black hole itself.
00:09:27 --> 00:09:29 Uh, like the kind of thing that Russell
00:09:29 --> 00:09:32 suggested, uh, like going only one way. We
00:09:32 --> 00:09:35 see no evidence whatsoever of that kind of
00:09:35 --> 00:09:38 thing. The universe, uh, as far as we can
00:09:38 --> 00:09:40 tell, is isotropic. That basically means
00:09:40 --> 00:09:43 it's the same in all directions, give or take
00:09:43 --> 00:09:45 a bit of structure that we find from
00:09:45 --> 00:09:47 galaxies. Nevertheless, it's more or less the
00:09:47 --> 00:09:49 same in all directions. And that seems to fly
00:09:49 --> 00:09:52 in the face of the idea of a black hole
00:09:52 --> 00:09:55 universe. So uh, I think Russell's asking
00:09:55 --> 00:09:57 what he's missing. I don't think he's missing
00:09:57 --> 00:09:59 anything. I think he's facing the same sort
00:09:59 --> 00:10:02 of challenge as people who propose this idea
00:10:02 --> 00:10:04 have to face. Uh, there's quite a lot of
00:10:04 --> 00:10:07 material on this topic on the web. Uh,
00:10:07 --> 00:10:10 not too hard to find. Um, it might be
00:10:10 --> 00:10:12 worth a poke around. Russell, uh, nice to
00:10:12 --> 00:10:15 hear your accent coming from reading down
00:10:15 --> 00:10:18 there. I know reading not that well, but I do
00:10:18 --> 00:10:21 know it in uh, in uh, south, uh, the
00:10:21 --> 00:10:21 south of England.
00:10:24 --> 00:10:24 There you are.
00:10:25 --> 00:10:27 Heidi Campo: That was a good question. Um, I,
00:10:27 --> 00:10:30 I recently re. Watched the movie Oppenheimer
00:10:30 --> 00:10:33 and they brought up the, with quantum physics
00:10:33 --> 00:10:35 and yeah, um, everything they said something
00:10:35 --> 00:10:38 about, you know, about, you know, anybody can
00:10:38 --> 00:10:41 do math and, but for the real theory it's
00:10:41 --> 00:10:43 like can you hear the music? Can you see
00:10:43 --> 00:10:46 what can't be seen? And I think that that's
00:10:46 --> 00:10:49 really. We do get a lot of people writing in
00:10:49 --> 00:10:52 with questions who think like that. We have a
00:10:52 --> 00:10:54 lot of very creative, very
00:10:55 --> 00:10:57 scientific minded people who are,
00:10:57 --> 00:11:00 I mean you guys are, you guys all should be
00:11:00 --> 00:11:01 scientists because some of the questions we
00:11:01 --> 00:11:04 get are very, very
00:11:04 --> 00:11:06 deep scientific thoughts.
00:11:08 --> 00:11:10 Professor Fred Watson: Okay, we checked all four systems and.
00:11:10 --> 00:11:13 Heidi Campo: Being with a girl, space nets, um,
00:11:13 --> 00:11:15 and that. Let's bring that to our next
00:11:15 --> 00:11:17 question which is going to be Paul
00:11:18 --> 00:11:20 from Melbourne, Australia. He says
00:11:21 --> 00:11:23 quick question. Hello, Heidi, Fred and
00:11:23 --> 00:11:26 Andrew. When Isaac Newton noticed an
00:11:26 --> 00:11:29 apple falling from the tree, did the
00:11:29 --> 00:11:32 planet Earth ever so slightly get
00:11:32 --> 00:11:35 tugged toward the apple as it fell
00:11:35 --> 00:11:38 to the ground? Thanks. Love the show.
00:11:38 --> 00:11:40 That's Paul from Melbourne with another
00:11:41 --> 00:11:42 deep, thoughtful question.
00:11:43 --> 00:11:45 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, I think the answer is yes
00:11:46 --> 00:11:48 as well. Uh,
00:11:48 --> 00:11:51 you know, um, when we think of the, and
00:11:51 --> 00:11:54 this is the Newton idea that gravity was a
00:11:54 --> 00:11:56 force. Einstein told us it's actually
00:11:56 --> 00:11:57 something different from that. It's a
00:11:57 --> 00:12:00 distortion of space. But, uh, just stick with
00:12:00 --> 00:12:03 Newton's idea for the moment. Um, the
00:12:03 --> 00:12:06 mutual attraction between the
00:12:06 --> 00:12:09 apple and the Earth goes both ways.
00:12:09 --> 00:12:11 The gravity of the apple would also be
00:12:11 --> 00:12:13 attracting the Earth, Uh, but not
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16 to any significant degree, of course, because
00:12:16 --> 00:12:18 of the, you know, the ratio of their masses
00:12:18 --> 00:12:21 is so high. But there would be, um,
00:12:21 --> 00:12:24 an infinitesimal nudge of the Earth
00:12:24 --> 00:12:27 up towards the Atlanta. Um, I
00:12:27 --> 00:12:30 think. So the answer is yes. Um, uh,
00:12:30 --> 00:12:33 it's a great question, Paul. Uh, Paul might
00:12:33 --> 00:12:34 also be interested to know that the apple
00:12:34 --> 00:12:37 tree is still there. Uh, that Newton
00:12:37 --> 00:12:39 is, uh, reported to have seen
00:12:40 --> 00:12:43 the apple falling down. Um,
00:12:44 --> 00:12:46 the place where he worked out his theory of
00:12:46 --> 00:12:48 gravity. He was actually in quarantine
00:12:48 --> 00:12:50 from Cambridge in a place called
00:12:50 --> 00:12:52 Lincolnshire, which is further north than
00:12:52 --> 00:12:55 Cambridge, when he lived in the
00:12:55 --> 00:12:58 family manor because they were, uh, well, uh,
00:12:58 --> 00:13:00 very well healed family. But his bedroom
00:13:00 --> 00:13:03 window overlooked this apple tree in
00:13:03 --> 00:13:06 the orchard. Uh, and so maybe it was
00:13:06 --> 00:13:08 looking out of his bedroom window that he saw
00:13:08 --> 00:13:11 apples falling and made him think about this
00:13:11 --> 00:13:13 force that pulls stuff down to the ground,
00:13:14 --> 00:13:16 which is the same force that keeps the Earth
00:13:16 --> 00:13:18 in its orbit around the sun and keeps the
00:13:18 --> 00:13:20 moon in orbit around the Earth. Um, so,
00:13:20 --> 00:13:22 um, it's nice that the apple tree is still
00:13:22 --> 00:13:24 there. It's got a fence, uh, around it now,
00:13:24 --> 00:13:26 so nobody cuts it down.
00:13:26 --> 00:13:28 Heidi Campo: Does it still produce fruit?
00:13:28 --> 00:13:30 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, I don't know the answer to that, Heidi.
00:13:30 --> 00:13:32 Um, it might just be a little bit elderly
00:13:32 --> 00:13:35 because that was all in the 1680s when that
00:13:35 --> 00:13:38 was happening. So. 1660s. I beg your pardon.
00:13:38 --> 00:13:38 When that was happening.
00:13:38 --> 00:13:40 Heidi Campo: That would be pretty crazy. I'm just thinking
00:13:40 --> 00:13:43 of the capitalist thought with that is. Okay,
00:13:43 --> 00:13:46 we're gonna sell, um, Newton apple juice,
00:13:46 --> 00:13:48 and it's gonna be from this tree, and we're
00:13:48 --> 00:13:50 gonna brand it as. This is the genius. This
00:13:50 --> 00:13:53 is what genius? The genius apple juice.
00:13:54 --> 00:13:55 Professor Fred Watson: I think you're right on the money there. Uh,
00:13:55 --> 00:13:57 and that's probably, that's probably the fact
00:13:57 --> 00:13:59 that it doesn't produce apples anymore is why
00:13:59 --> 00:14:00 that hasn't happened.
00:14:01 --> 00:14:03 Heidi Campo: Yeah, unfortunately.
00:14:06 --> 00:14:08 Professor Fred Watson: Three, two, one.
00:14:09 --> 00:14:10 Mikey: Space nuts.
00:14:11 --> 00:14:13 Heidi Campo: All right, well, our very last question today
00:14:13 --> 00:14:16 is from Mikey, and this is also another
00:14:16 --> 00:14:19 audio question, so I'm going to give Fred a
00:14:19 --> 00:14:21 chance to cue that up, and then we are going
00:14:21 --> 00:14:24 to play that for all of you to hear Mikey's
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26 question, and then Fred will answer that. So
00:14:26 --> 00:14:27 I'm going to go ahead and play that now.
00:14:28 --> 00:14:30 Mikey: Hey Fred and Andrew, I hope you're doing
00:14:30 --> 00:14:33 well. This is Mikey once again from Illinois.
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35 Um, I wanted to talk about the European Space
00:14:35 --> 00:14:38 Agency's solar orbiter. And
00:14:38 --> 00:14:41 I know that it was the first
00:14:41 --> 00:14:44 spacecraft to ever take images of the north
00:14:44 --> 00:14:46 and south pole of the sun, which is a huge
00:14:46 --> 00:14:49 thing because every time we've taken any
00:14:49 --> 00:14:51 photos it's been from the ecliptic plane.
00:14:51 --> 00:14:54 Um, and that got me thinking, was that
00:14:54 --> 00:14:57 spacecraft or is that spacecraft the
00:14:57 --> 00:14:59 only thing to ever make that orbit that
00:14:59 --> 00:15:02 wasn't in the ecliptic plane? Man made or
00:15:02 --> 00:15:04 not? Is there anything else in our solar
00:15:04 --> 00:15:07 system that takes that, that
00:15:07 --> 00:15:09 kind of orbit or was that
00:15:09 --> 00:15:12 spacecraft the only thing ever in our
00:15:12 --> 00:15:15 solar system to orbit outside of the
00:15:15 --> 00:15:17 ecliptic plane? Um,
00:15:18 --> 00:15:20 that's just, it's hurting my head thinking
00:15:20 --> 00:15:23 about that. Uh, hopefully that
00:15:23 --> 00:15:25 question makes sense to you guys and I can't
00:15:25 --> 00:15:26 wait to hear the answer.
00:15:27 --> 00:15:29 Heidi Campo: I can't wait to hear the answer either. This
00:15:29 --> 00:15:31 is a really good question with
00:15:32 --> 00:15:35 quite a thought provoking idea to
00:15:35 --> 00:15:37 it. I, I've never thought of that as well. We
00:15:37 --> 00:15:40 don't really often see pictures of the top
00:15:40 --> 00:15:42 and bottom of the celestial bodies.
00:15:43 --> 00:15:46 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right. Um, so the, the,
00:15:46 --> 00:15:49 so the answer to, to um, Mikey's question,
00:15:49 --> 00:15:52 um, which is, does anything
00:15:52 --> 00:15:55 in the solar system orbit outside
00:15:55 --> 00:15:57 the ecliptic plane? The ecliptic plane being
00:15:57 --> 00:16:00 the plane in which the planets, uh, and most
00:16:00 --> 00:16:02 of the asteroids orbit the sun. And the
00:16:02 --> 00:16:05 answer is yes, um, comets do. So
00:16:05 --> 00:16:08 comets come in to uh, the inner
00:16:08 --> 00:16:10 solar system in their very elongated orbits
00:16:10 --> 00:16:13 from pretty well all angles. Uh, and
00:16:13 --> 00:16:16 so they sometimes come from the, you know,
00:16:16 --> 00:16:17 above the ecliptic plane, sometimes from
00:16:17 --> 00:16:20 below it. Uh, and um,
00:16:20 --> 00:16:23 that's why we think that the source of comets
00:16:23 --> 00:16:26 is actually a spherical shell of
00:16:26 --> 00:16:28 cometary material, uh because they do come in
00:16:28 --> 00:16:31 from all angles. So uh, it
00:16:31 --> 00:16:34 stands to reason that they're uh, their
00:16:34 --> 00:16:36 origin. If there is a cloud of these things
00:16:36 --> 00:16:38 outside the, outside the
00:16:39 --> 00:16:42 domain, uh, of the planets as we think there
00:16:42 --> 00:16:45 is, then it would be spherical and we call
00:16:45 --> 00:16:47 it the Oort cloud. It was Jan Oort, a great
00:16:47 --> 00:16:50 Dutch astronomer who postulated that. So
00:16:50 --> 00:16:52 comets do, they're natural objects that do
00:16:53 --> 00:16:55 orbit well outside the plane of the ecliptic.
00:16:56 --> 00:16:58 Um, but in terms of uh, spacecraft,
00:16:59 --> 00:17:02 uh, no, um, there
00:17:02 --> 00:17:05 are spacecraft that are above uh,
00:17:05 --> 00:17:08 and below the ecliptic. In fact, Voyager 2 is
00:17:08 --> 00:17:09 the classic example that ah,
00:17:10 --> 00:17:13 uh, is heading out of the solar system well
00:17:13 --> 00:17:16 below the plane of the ecliptic. It's well to
00:17:16 --> 00:17:18 the south of the ecliptic plane, which is why
00:17:18 --> 00:17:21 the only radio telescope in the world that
00:17:21 --> 00:17:22 could communicate with it is here in
00:17:22 --> 00:17:25 Australia. Uh, because we see that
00:17:26 --> 00:17:28 part of the sky. Um, but uh,
00:17:29 --> 00:17:32 you're absolutely right, Mikey, that uh, this
00:17:32 --> 00:17:34 is the first time a, uh, spacecraft
00:17:35 --> 00:17:37 has seen the poles of the sun.
00:17:38 --> 00:17:41 Um, and it's actually, um, only
00:17:41 --> 00:17:44 at the moment. I think the tilt
00:17:44 --> 00:17:47 of the spacecraft's orbits to the ecliptic is
00:17:47 --> 00:17:49 only about 15 degrees. It's not very high,
00:17:49 --> 00:17:51 but it's still enough to be able to see over
00:17:51 --> 00:17:54 the top and uh, uh, of the sun.
00:17:55 --> 00:17:57 Uh, sorry, uh, it's the bottom of the sun, if
00:17:57 --> 00:17:58 we put it that way, because I think it's the
00:17:58 --> 00:18:01 south polar region that's been imaged. Uh,
00:18:01 --> 00:18:04 but they are, uh, esa, the European Space
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07 Agency, have plans to increase the tilt of
00:18:07 --> 00:18:10 the orbit. So we'll see, we'll have a much
00:18:10 --> 00:18:12 better view of the Sun's south
00:18:12 --> 00:18:14 pole. Um,
00:18:15 --> 00:18:17 the process of
00:18:17 --> 00:18:20 changing the angle of an orbit is actually
00:18:21 --> 00:18:23 quite expensive in terms of fuel. It's
00:18:23 --> 00:18:26 not a straightforward thing to do. Uh, so
00:18:26 --> 00:18:29 it's uh, you know, it's very ambitious thing
00:18:29 --> 00:18:30 to do for the
00:18:32 --> 00:18:34 operators and the mission controllers for the
00:18:34 --> 00:18:37 um, Solar Orbiter spacecraft to be able to do
00:18:37 --> 00:18:39 that. Uh, it's obviously been built into the
00:18:39 --> 00:18:41 mission. The spacecraft um, actually went
00:18:41 --> 00:18:44 into orbit around The sun in 2020. So
00:18:44 --> 00:18:46 it's been working for five years. And I think
00:18:46 --> 00:18:49 the mission profile has this steady increase
00:18:49 --> 00:18:52 of the, of the orbital angle. Uh,
00:18:52 --> 00:18:54 what's perhaps even more interesting than
00:18:54 --> 00:18:56 that is what they found at the Sun's poles,
00:18:56 --> 00:18:58 uh, the south pole. And that is
00:18:59 --> 00:19:01 uh, a, uh, confusion of magnetic
00:19:01 --> 00:19:04 fields. Uh, the Sun's magnetism is
00:19:04 --> 00:19:06 very bizarre. Unlike the Earth, where the
00:19:06 --> 00:19:09 magnetic fields are strongest, uh, around the
00:19:09 --> 00:19:12 poles of the Earth, it's the opposite way
00:19:12 --> 00:19:14 around on the sun. At least at the moment,
00:19:14 --> 00:19:16 uh, it's something that changes with the
00:19:16 --> 00:19:19 Sun's 11 year cycle. Uh, so
00:19:19 --> 00:19:22 at the moment the Sun's magnetic activity is
00:19:22 --> 00:19:25 really mostly around its equator rather
00:19:25 --> 00:19:27 than at the poles. And there's a jumble of
00:19:27 --> 00:19:30 magnetic fields, uh, being discovered at, ah,
00:19:30 --> 00:19:33 the poles, which is probably due to the
00:19:33 --> 00:19:36 fact that at the peak of the Sun's activity,
00:19:36 --> 00:19:38 which is where we are now, the magnetic field
00:19:38 --> 00:19:41 of the sun actually switches from north to
00:19:41 --> 00:19:43 south. Uh, and so that might be why we're
00:19:43 --> 00:19:46 seeing this confusion at the pole of the Sun.
00:19:46 --> 00:19:49 So yeah, great question and such an
00:19:49 --> 00:19:52 interesting spacecraft as well. I once again
00:19:52 --> 00:19:53 encourage you to get online and check out
00:19:54 --> 00:19:57 Issa's solar orbiter there's some fabulous
00:19:57 --> 00:19:59 stuff on the web with many, many images of
00:20:00 --> 00:20:02 what's happening, uh, near the sun's poles.
00:20:03 --> 00:20:05 Heidi Campo: Yeah, I think I was reading about that one
00:20:05 --> 00:20:08 recently too. And yeah, I mean, really, this
00:20:08 --> 00:20:10 industry is picking up. There's so much
00:20:10 --> 00:20:12 happening every day it's hard to keep track
00:20:12 --> 00:20:12 of.
00:20:12 --> 00:20:15 But uh, we mentioned this a little bit before
00:20:15 --> 00:20:18 we started recording, but Fred, you
00:20:18 --> 00:20:21 subscribed to so many, um, news resources and
00:20:21 --> 00:20:23 it's your morning routine. I've got one
00:20:23 --> 00:20:26 question for you about how much time do
00:20:26 --> 00:20:29 you dedicate a morning to reading through
00:20:29 --> 00:20:32 the space news and updating, updating
00:20:32 --> 00:20:34 yourself to stay up to date? Can you walk us
00:20:34 --> 00:20:35 through a little bit of what that routine
00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 looks like for people who want to, you know,
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 who kind of aspire to be a little bit more
00:20:40 --> 00:20:41 like you and have that discipline?
00:20:42 --> 00:20:45 Professor Fred Watson: It's um. I always feel that I spend
00:20:45 --> 00:20:48 too much time doing it because I've always
00:20:48 --> 00:20:50 got things that I want to achieve
00:20:51 --> 00:20:53 during the day. And usually it's writing an
00:20:53 --> 00:20:55 article or, you know,
00:20:56 --> 00:20:58 at the moment I'm trying to get my head
00:20:58 --> 00:21:00 around some, uh, some legal
00:21:00 --> 00:21:03 stuff that I'm involved with in terms of, um,
00:21:04 --> 00:21:07 uh, acting, uh, on behalf of.
00:21:08 --> 00:21:10 I won't say what it's about, but it's
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13 astronomy related, uh,
00:21:13 --> 00:21:15 you know, legal, legal issues. So that,
00:21:15 --> 00:21:17 that's the kind of thing that I should be
00:21:17 --> 00:21:19 really getting onto. But my head really wants
00:21:19 --> 00:21:22 to soak in what's coming out in the science
00:21:22 --> 00:21:25 news. So sometimes it's an hour, uh, in the
00:21:25 --> 00:21:28 morning that I spend delving into these
00:21:28 --> 00:21:31 stories. Uh, because you, you know, you see a
00:21:31 --> 00:21:33 headline and uh, especially when
00:21:33 --> 00:21:36 you're, I mean, I've spent my entire life
00:21:36 --> 00:21:39 working in this field. So it's stuff that,
00:21:39 --> 00:21:42 that has basically been second nature
00:21:42 --> 00:21:44 to me. So quite often I'll see a headline and
00:21:44 --> 00:21:47 think, but wait a minute, if that's the case,
00:21:47 --> 00:21:49 then this mustn't be right. And that
00:21:49 --> 00:21:52 mustn't be right. And that sucks me in
00:21:52 --> 00:21:54 straight away. It's like clickbait almost.
00:21:55 --> 00:21:58 And it works perfectly for me, uh, because
00:21:58 --> 00:22:00 it, I see a headline, it immediately raises
00:22:00 --> 00:22:02 questions. So yeah, I've got to look at that
00:22:02 --> 00:22:05 story. So yes, it's probably,
00:22:05 --> 00:22:07 you know, as I said, it's part of the morning
00:22:07 --> 00:22:08 routine. I would say
00:22:09 --> 00:22:12 typically half an hour, but often it's more
00:22:12 --> 00:22:14 like an hour and sometimes all morning if
00:22:14 --> 00:22:16 there's really interesting stuff going on.
00:22:17 --> 00:22:20 Heidi Campo: Well, thank you for sharing your uh, all
00:22:20 --> 00:22:21 the knowledge with us.
00:22:21 --> 00:22:24 Professor Fred Watson: Oh, well, uh, yes, it's all secondhand
00:22:24 --> 00:22:26 knowledge. Well, a lot of it is. Some of it
00:22:26 --> 00:22:28 is stuff I've worked on myself, but. But a
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 lot of, uh, what I do is really,
00:22:31 --> 00:22:34 um, in a sense, it's my way of paying homage
00:22:34 --> 00:22:36 to these fabulous scientists who are working
00:22:36 --> 00:22:38 around the world on stuff that's very close
00:22:38 --> 00:22:41 to my heart and yours, too, Heidi, in
00:22:41 --> 00:22:44 space, uh, research and astronomy.
00:22:44 --> 00:22:47 So, um, it's a great way to
00:22:47 --> 00:22:50 perhaps give back to those researchers,
00:22:50 --> 00:22:53 uh, a little bit of the kudos that, uh,
00:22:53 --> 00:22:56 they deserve, uh, on a wider platform,
00:22:56 --> 00:22:58 which is, I guess, what Space Nuts is.
00:22:58 --> 00:23:00 Heidi Campo: Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's. That's how I
00:23:00 --> 00:23:02 originally found the podcast is. I just
00:23:02 --> 00:23:04 wanted a different medium to start learning
00:23:04 --> 00:23:05 more about space. And here we are.
00:23:06 --> 00:23:08 Professor Fred Watson: There you are. Yeah, you definitely got
00:23:08 --> 00:23:09 sucked in, Heidi.
00:23:09 --> 00:23:12 Heidi Campo: I got sucked in. Your. Your, uh, your
00:23:12 --> 00:23:13 orbit was strong.
00:23:14 --> 00:23:16 All right, everybody, well, this has been
00:23:16 --> 00:23:19 another wonderful episode. Thank you so much
00:23:19 --> 00:23:21 for tuning in. Please keep your amazing
00:23:21 --> 00:23:23 questions coming. You guys really are half
00:23:23 --> 00:23:25 the show, and we appreciate you and we look
00:23:25 --> 00:23:28 forward to these questions. Um, with that
00:23:28 --> 00:23:31 being said, I have nothing else to say. Fred,
00:23:31 --> 00:23:32 do you want to sign us off?
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, just, uh, keep. Keep an eye on what's
00:23:36 --> 00:23:38 going on. Space astronomy, uh, is looking up,
00:23:38 --> 00:23:41 as we all say, uh, and it's true, certainly,
00:23:41 --> 00:23:43 of space science as well. So keep on looking
00:23:43 --> 00:23:46 up, keep on tuning into Spacenauts, and we'll
00:23:46 --> 00:23:46 catch you next time.
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50 Voice Over Guy: You've been listening to the Space Nuts
00:23:50 --> 00:23:53 podcast, available at
00:23:53 --> 00:23:54 Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
00:23:55 --> 00:23:57 iHeartRadio, or your favorite podcast
00:23:57 --> 00:23:59 player. You can also stream on
00:23:59 --> 00:24:02 dmand at bitesz.com this has been another
00:24:02 --> 00:24:04 quality podcast production from
00:24:04 --> 00:24:05 bitesz.com