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Cosmic Curiosities: Probing the Depths of Our Universe
In this enlightening Q&A episode of Space Nuts, host Heidi Campo and the ever-insightful Professor Fred Watson tackle some of the most thought-provoking questions from our listeners. From the nature of light speed in alternate universes to the intriguing concept of protoplanetary disks and the potential for life beyond Earth, this episode is packed with cosmic insights and fascinating discussions.
Episode Highlights:
- Light Speed Across Universes: Heidi and Fred delve into a listener's question about whether an observer from a different universe would measure the speed of light differently. The implications of varying fundamental constants across universes are explored, igniting a discussion about the fine-tuning of our own universe for life.
- Protoplanetary Disks and Water: The duo examines the structure of protoplanetary disks and whether Earth could have formed in a belt where liquid water existed. Fred explains the Goldilocks zone and how temperature variations influence planet formation and the presence of water.
- Population III Stars: A question from Ron about the existence of Population III red dwarf stars leads to a fascinating exploration of the earliest stars formed after the Big Bang. Fred explains the characteristics of these stars and why red dwarfs likely did not emerge until later generations.
- Life Beyond Earth: The episode wraps up with a discussion about the most promising locations in our solar system to search for life beyond Earth. From Mars to the icy moons of Europa and Enceladus, Fred and Heidi weigh the possibilities of finding microbial life in these intriguing environments.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
(00:00) Welcome to Space Nuts with Heidi Campo and Fred Watson
(01:20) Discussion on light speed in alternate universes
(15:00) Exploring protoplanetary disks and water formation
(25:30) Population III stars and their characteristics
(35:00) The search for life beyond Earth in our solar system
Link to the L'Space Program: https://www.lspace.asu.edu/
For commercial-free versions of Space Nuts, join us on Patreon, Supercast, Apple Podcasts, or become a supporter here: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:03 Heidi Campo: Welcome back to another Q and A session of
00:00:03 --> 00:00:06 Space Nuts. I'm your host for this
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 American summer, an Australian winter,
00:00:08 --> 00:00:11 Heidi Campo. And joining us today to
00:00:11 --> 00:00:13 answer all of your questions is Professor
00:00:13 --> 00:00:16 Fred Watson, astronomer at large.
00:00:16 --> 00:00:18 Generic: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.
00:00:19 --> 00:00:21 10, 9. Ignition
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 sequence start. Space nets 5, 4,
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 3, 2, 1. 2, 3, 4, 5, 5,
00:00:27 --> 00:00:30 4, 3, 2', 1. Space nuts
00:00:30 --> 00:00:31 astronauts report it feels.
00:00:33 --> 00:00:33 Heidi Campo: Fred, how are you doing?
00:00:34 --> 00:00:37 Professor Fred Watson: Oh, pretty well, thanks Heidi. Nearly as well
00:00:37 --> 00:00:39 as I was the last time I saw you.
00:00:42 --> 00:00:44 Heidi Campo: Oh, inside jokes. For those of you regular
00:00:44 --> 00:00:46 listeners, you know what's going on.
00:00:46 --> 00:00:49 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Because you were
00:00:49 --> 00:00:50 a bit under the weather before.
00:00:50 --> 00:00:53 Heidi Campo: I, I am. So if you guys hear my voice sounds
00:00:53 --> 00:00:55 a little bit scratchy, I apologize. I was
00:00:55 --> 00:00:58 doing some traveling recently and I was
00:00:58 --> 00:01:00 probably picked up a little germ at the
00:01:00 --> 00:01:03 airport. But that's I, I, I'll be okay. I
00:01:03 --> 00:01:04 think I'll survive this time.
00:01:05 --> 00:01:06 Professor Fred Watson: Hopefully.
00:01:06 --> 00:01:08 Heidi Campo: Hopefully. Yeah, I don't know. I guess you
00:01:08 --> 00:01:10 never know. Could be, could be.
00:01:11 --> 00:01:13 didn't like you think about those crazy cases
00:01:13 --> 00:01:15 where it's like didn't Bob, Bob Marley died
00:01:15 --> 00:01:17 from skin cancer and it's like, I guess you
00:01:17 --> 00:01:17 really never know.
00:01:19 --> 00:01:20 Professor Fred Watson: That's true.
00:01:21 --> 00:01:23 Heidi Campo: Well, hey, here's something that hopefully
00:01:23 --> 00:01:25 you can answer for us, Fred.
00:01:26 --> 00:01:28 Rennie from S.A. sunny West
00:01:28 --> 00:01:30 Hills, CA asks
00:01:31 --> 00:01:33 theoretically, if an observer
00:01:33 --> 00:01:36 scientist outside our universe was able to
00:01:36 --> 00:01:39 look into our universe, would that
00:01:39 --> 00:01:42 observers re research on light
00:01:42 --> 00:01:45 speed and other phenomenon match our
00:01:45 --> 00:01:46 scientists findings?
00:01:49 --> 00:01:52 Professor Fred Watson: It's a great question, Rennie. Rennie's one
00:01:52 --> 00:01:55 of our regular questioners and always asks
00:01:55 --> 00:01:58 the provocative ones. I like it very much
00:01:59 --> 00:01:59 so.
00:02:02 --> 00:02:05 Professor Fred Watson: We'Ve got to envisage an observer that's in
00:02:05 --> 00:02:08 some other universe where the light
00:02:08 --> 00:02:10 speed and other, you know, other
00:02:11 --> 00:02:14 fundamental quantities, speed
00:02:14 --> 00:02:16 of light, mass of the electron, things like
00:02:16 --> 00:02:18 that, they might be quite different.
00:02:19 --> 00:02:21 so you would have to
00:02:22 --> 00:02:24 basically think outside the box.
00:02:25 --> 00:02:27 We're talking now about the biggest boxes
00:02:27 --> 00:02:28 that could exist. If we're talking about
00:02:29 --> 00:02:31 separate universes, you'd have to
00:02:31 --> 00:02:34 look into our universe and use yardsticks
00:02:34 --> 00:02:37 that were basically part and
00:02:37 --> 00:02:39 parcel of our universe in order to measure
00:02:40 --> 00:02:42 those fundamental quantities. So
00:02:43 --> 00:02:45 you'd need to have a way of determining
00:02:45 --> 00:02:48 distance, and that way you could
00:02:48 --> 00:02:51 perhaps use a way of determining time
00:02:51 --> 00:02:54 to determine the speed of light. you might
00:02:54 --> 00:02:57 well be able to determine that the speed of
00:02:57 --> 00:02:58 light in our universe was different from the
00:02:58 --> 00:03:00 speed of light in your universe, which will
00:03:00 --> 00:03:03 be a very interesting property. and
00:03:03 --> 00:03:05 it's actually one of the reasons why People
00:03:05 --> 00:03:08 speculate, Heidi, that, there might be other
00:03:08 --> 00:03:11 universes. The fact that those physical
00:03:11 --> 00:03:13 parameters in our own universe are
00:03:13 --> 00:03:16 so well suited to, the
00:03:16 --> 00:03:19 formation of stars, galaxies,
00:03:19 --> 00:03:21 planets, stability that,
00:03:22 --> 00:03:25 would allow molecules to be created that
00:03:25 --> 00:03:27 could eventually turn into living organisms.
00:03:27 --> 00:03:30 One of the reasons astronomers think there
00:03:30 --> 00:03:33 might be other universes is because those
00:03:33 --> 00:03:35 properties of our own universe are so well
00:03:35 --> 00:03:37 tuned to life that maybe there are other
00:03:37 --> 00:03:40 universes where that is not the case. And
00:03:40 --> 00:03:42 so if you were standing in one of those
00:03:42 --> 00:03:44 universes and looking back at our own, you
00:03:44 --> 00:03:46 might well say, well, that's ridiculous. The
00:03:46 --> 00:03:48 speed of light, there's only 300
00:03:48 --> 00:03:51 kilometers per second. It's much faster than
00:03:51 --> 00:03:53 that here. So, you know, you could be looking
00:03:53 --> 00:03:55 at different parameters. So I think, Rennie,
00:03:55 --> 00:03:57 it's an interesting thought experiment and,
00:03:57 --> 00:03:59 thank you very much for the question.
00:04:00 --> 00:04:03 Heidi Campo: It's very, interstellar when he goes into the
00:04:03 --> 00:04:06 dimension where they're looking through a
00:04:06 --> 00:04:06 different plane.
00:04:07 --> 00:04:10 Our next question is from Dean, and
00:04:10 --> 00:04:13 Dean says, I believe you all
00:04:13 --> 00:04:15 had mentioned previously that in a,
00:04:15 --> 00:04:18 protoplanetary disk, heavier
00:04:18 --> 00:04:20 elements reside closer to the star,
00:04:21 --> 00:04:23 which is the reason the interior planets of
00:04:23 --> 00:04:25 our system are, quote, rocky.
00:04:26 --> 00:04:28 The protostar is too hot for
00:04:28 --> 00:04:31 volatile materials to become solid,
00:04:31 --> 00:04:34 and the solar wind blows the lighter elements
00:04:34 --> 00:04:35 away. My question
00:04:37 --> 00:04:40 was Earth in a belt of protoplanetary
00:04:40 --> 00:04:43 disk where liquid or water orbited?
00:04:43 --> 00:04:46 Could such a belt exist in protoplanetary
00:04:46 --> 00:04:47 disk?
00:04:49 --> 00:04:52 Professor Fred Watson: yeah. It is another great
00:04:52 --> 00:04:55 question. And I suppose what Dean is
00:04:55 --> 00:04:57 saying is, is there
00:04:57 --> 00:05:00 a Goldilocks zone in the protoplanetary disk?
00:05:01 --> 00:05:04 because the protoplanetary disk is
00:05:04 --> 00:05:06 where the planets were formed. and
00:05:06 --> 00:05:09 yes, the temperature of material in that disk
00:05:09 --> 00:05:12 will vary. It'll be much hotter near the star
00:05:12 --> 00:05:14 itself and much colder outside. And
00:05:16 --> 00:05:18 we do see, just in the way the
00:05:18 --> 00:05:20 planets of our solar system are distributed,
00:05:20 --> 00:05:23 with the four rocky ones internally and then
00:05:23 --> 00:05:26 the four, gaseous ones and icy
00:05:26 --> 00:05:28 ones further out, we see that
00:05:29 --> 00:05:31 effect of, the
00:05:31 --> 00:05:34 Goldilocks zone. So Mars sits
00:05:34 --> 00:05:37 just within the sun's ice.
00:05:37 --> 00:05:40 what's it called? The ice limit?
00:05:41 --> 00:05:44 Can't remember. Anyway, it's something like
00:05:44 --> 00:05:47 that. It's where, water ceases to be
00:05:47 --> 00:05:50 a vapor and becomes ice.
00:05:50 --> 00:05:53 so beyond the orbit of Mars,
00:05:54 --> 00:05:56 things, things basically freeze.
00:05:57 --> 00:06:00 if, if, if you've got water vapor. and
00:06:00 --> 00:06:02 that is thought to be why the gas giants
00:06:02 --> 00:06:05 grew so big, the four gas giants,
00:06:05 --> 00:06:08 because, the fact that their water is
00:06:08 --> 00:06:10 actually the commonest two element molecule
00:06:10 --> 00:06:12 in the whole universe. so if the
00:06:13 --> 00:06:15 water vapor becomes something solid,
00:06:15 --> 00:06:18 beyond that that ice limit, then,
00:06:18 --> 00:06:21 then you're going to get the
00:06:21 --> 00:06:23 collection of much more mass
00:06:24 --> 00:06:26 in a planet that's being built by this
00:06:26 --> 00:06:29 process of accretion. so because the
00:06:29 --> 00:06:32 water is now in a solid form, you can build a
00:06:32 --> 00:06:34 much bigger planetary core. and
00:06:34 --> 00:06:37 that is why you can then get something big
00:06:37 --> 00:06:39 enough that it actually hangs onto the gases
00:06:39 --> 00:06:42 surrounding it and you've got a gas giant. So
00:06:42 --> 00:06:44 that's the picture that we imagine is
00:06:45 --> 00:06:47 the way planets form. So
00:06:49 --> 00:06:52 just turning to Dean's question. Was Earth in
00:06:52 --> 00:06:54 a belt of the protoplanetary disk where
00:06:54 --> 00:06:56 liquid water orbited? it wouldn't have been
00:06:56 --> 00:06:59 liquid because you can't have
00:06:59 --> 00:07:02 liquid in a vacuum. but you
00:07:02 --> 00:07:05 can get water molecules in
00:07:05 --> 00:07:08 vapor form basically or in the
00:07:08 --> 00:07:10 form of ice. And yes, there would have been a
00:07:10 --> 00:07:12 step there I think in the protoplanetary disk
00:07:13 --> 00:07:15 where the ice solidified, where you've got
00:07:15 --> 00:07:18 solid ice. so I think that's a really
00:07:18 --> 00:07:21 good question and I believe
00:07:21 --> 00:07:23 I've seen some
00:07:23 --> 00:07:26 papers recently, which suggest that
00:07:26 --> 00:07:29 we are actually observing that in fact, very
00:07:29 --> 00:07:30 recently, I think it might even have been
00:07:30 --> 00:07:33 last week, Heidi, there was a paper that
00:07:33 --> 00:07:36 reported the detection of ice in a
00:07:36 --> 00:07:39 protoplanetary disk. so that's one to
00:07:39 --> 00:07:42 check out. it's yeah, it's there and
00:07:42 --> 00:07:45 in the inner regions it's probably too warm
00:07:45 --> 00:07:47 for it to exist as a solid material.
00:07:48 --> 00:07:51 Heidi Campo: So Dean's, Dean's onto something. We get a
00:07:51 --> 00:07:53 lot of really smart people who follow along
00:07:53 --> 00:07:54 this show too.
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58 Andrew Dunkley: Let's take a break from the show to tell you
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00:09:23 --> 00:09:24 Now back to the show.
00:09:25 --> 00:09:27 Generic: Three, two, one.
00:09:28 --> 00:09:29 Space Nuts.
00:09:29 --> 00:09:32 Heidi Campo: Our next question comes from Ron. And he
00:09:32 --> 00:09:35 says hello from upstate New York. Ron. That
00:09:35 --> 00:09:36 is where my husband is from. I wonder if
00:09:36 --> 00:09:39 you're from the Catskills area. Beautiful
00:09:39 --> 00:09:41 place, if any of you guys ever get to visit.
00:09:42 --> 00:09:42 Generic: Hello.
00:09:42 --> 00:09:45 Heidi Campo: Ron says hello from upstate New York. I was
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 wondering, with the extreme lifetime of red
00:09:48 --> 00:09:51 dwarf stars being one of the
00:09:51 --> 00:09:53 order of trillions of years, could there be
00:09:53 --> 00:09:56 any population of, I think that says
00:09:56 --> 00:09:59 of population three. Sorry, Population
00:09:59 --> 00:10:01 three red dwarf stars. Maybe I should ask
00:10:01 --> 00:10:04 first, do we think red dwarf stars were
00:10:04 --> 00:10:07 formed right after the Big Bang to be a part
00:10:07 --> 00:10:10 of the population 3 stars? Thank you for
00:10:10 --> 00:10:12 considering my question and always
00:10:12 --> 00:10:14 informative podcast from Ron.
00:10:15 --> 00:10:18 Professor Fred Watson: Thanks, Ron. and greetings to upstate New
00:10:18 --> 00:10:20 York. yeah, that's another.
00:10:21 --> 00:10:23 They're all great questions that we count
00:10:23 --> 00:10:26 space nuts. and it's a very
00:10:26 --> 00:10:29 intelligent one as well. And just to sort of
00:10:29 --> 00:10:31 give the backstory of this Population three
00:10:31 --> 00:10:33 stars, and it's usually written as a Roman
00:10:33 --> 00:10:36 three stars. They're
00:10:36 --> 00:10:39 what we think of as being the first stars to
00:10:39 --> 00:10:42 form in the universe back
00:10:42 --> 00:10:45 probably within the first 2 or 300 million
00:10:45 --> 00:10:48 years of the Big Bang, which we believe
00:10:48 --> 00:10:50 happened 13.8 billion years ago.
00:10:50 --> 00:10:53 so we. What would signify
00:10:53 --> 00:10:56 a population three star? It would be a star,
00:10:56 --> 00:10:59 whose spectrum, when you analyze its
00:10:59 --> 00:11:02 light, reveals only the presence of
00:11:02 --> 00:11:04 hydrogen and helium, because they were the
00:11:04 --> 00:11:06 elements that were predominantly produced in
00:11:06 --> 00:11:08 the Big Bang. There were a few other things
00:11:08 --> 00:11:10 produced in very, very small quantities,
00:11:12 --> 00:11:15 like lithium, but really it was
00:11:15 --> 00:11:16 mostly hydrogen and helium that were produced
00:11:16 --> 00:11:19 in the Big Bang. And so population
00:11:19 --> 00:11:22 3 stars will be stars that only show
00:11:22 --> 00:11:25 the signatures of those chemical
00:11:25 --> 00:11:28 elements in their spectrum. We haven't
00:11:28 --> 00:11:30 actually found any yet. We found some that
00:11:30 --> 00:11:33 look very nearly like Population 3 stars, but
00:11:33 --> 00:11:35 they still have a little trace of iron in
00:11:35 --> 00:11:37 them, the ones that have been found, and iron
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39 is formed, in the interior of
00:11:39 --> 00:11:41 stars. And so you know that anything that
00:11:41 --> 00:11:44 shows up iron is not the first generation of
00:11:44 --> 00:11:47 stars ever to exist because other stars have
00:11:47 --> 00:11:50 been there first, and have formed the iron.
00:11:50 --> 00:11:53 So population three stars are a bit of a holy
00:11:53 --> 00:11:55 grail, actually. Trying to find Them, I've
00:11:55 --> 00:11:57 worked with, people here in Australia
00:11:58 --> 00:12:00 whose sole scientific mission has been to
00:12:00 --> 00:12:02 find population, three stars. And they've
00:12:02 --> 00:12:03 come pretty near it with these very early,
00:12:04 --> 00:12:06 what we call metal pore stars. Metals,
00:12:07 --> 00:12:09 unlike the way we think of metals in everyday
00:12:09 --> 00:12:11 life, things that
00:12:12 --> 00:12:14 contribute steel and brass and stuff like
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16 that, metals are anything other than hydrogen
00:12:16 --> 00:12:18 and helium. To an astronomer it's a very
00:12:18 --> 00:12:21 curious expression. so metal poor stars are
00:12:21 --> 00:12:23 ones that don't have much of anything other
00:12:23 --> 00:12:26 than hydrogen, helium. So the
00:12:26 --> 00:12:29 cutting to the nub of Ron's question though,
00:12:30 --> 00:12:33 we think the very first generations of stars
00:12:33 --> 00:12:35 to form in the universe
00:12:36 --> 00:12:38 were not, were not red
00:12:38 --> 00:12:40 dwarfs. we don't think they were dwarf stars
00:12:40 --> 00:12:43 at all. We think they were
00:12:43 --> 00:12:46 very massive stars, perhaps 20,
00:12:46 --> 00:12:48 maybe even up to 100 times the mass of the
00:12:48 --> 00:12:51 sun, that had very short lives, and
00:12:51 --> 00:12:54 exploded, you know, within perhaps less than
00:12:54 --> 00:12:57 a million years. Such a short life that,
00:12:57 --> 00:13:00 remember our sun is four, and a half
00:13:00 --> 00:13:02 billion years old and it's in its sort of
00:13:02 --> 00:13:05 middle age, midlife, not a crisis, but a
00:13:05 --> 00:13:08 midlife term. So red dwarfs
00:13:08 --> 00:13:10 probably did not form in the early universe.
00:13:11 --> 00:13:14 And in any case, what categorizes a
00:13:14 --> 00:13:16 red dwarf star, is actually the
00:13:16 --> 00:13:19 fact that it has
00:13:19 --> 00:13:22 seen many generations of stars before it
00:13:23 --> 00:13:25 because they're rich in all
00:13:25 --> 00:13:27 kinds of different chemical elements, not
00:13:27 --> 00:13:29 just hydrogen and helium. they are
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33 basically, you know, cool
00:13:33 --> 00:13:36 stars, which show the characteristic
00:13:36 --> 00:13:38 signatures of all sorts of things, even
00:13:38 --> 00:13:40 molecules. I think some molecules. Molecules
00:13:40 --> 00:13:42 don't usually exist in stars because they get
00:13:42 --> 00:13:45 torn apart. The atoms get torn apart by the
00:13:45 --> 00:13:47 heat. But I think red dwarf stars have some
00:13:47 --> 00:13:50 molecular signatures as well. so the answer
00:13:50 --> 00:13:52 is, I think no. red dwarf stars weren't
00:13:52 --> 00:13:55 formed right after the Big Bang. And there
00:13:55 --> 00:13:57 probably aren't any population three red
00:13:57 --> 00:13:59 dwarf stars. But you're absolutely right that
00:13:59 --> 00:14:01 the lifetime of red dwarf stars is very, very
00:14:01 --> 00:14:04 long. Maybe, up to trillions of years as
00:14:04 --> 00:14:06 you've suggested. Ron, thanks very much for
00:14:06 --> 00:14:06 the question.
00:14:07 --> 00:14:10 Heidi Campo: Very interesting, very interesting indeed.
00:14:12 --> 00:14:14 Andrew Dunkley: Okay, we checked all four systems.
00:14:15 --> 00:14:16 Professor Fred Watson: Space nets.
00:14:16 --> 00:14:19 Heidi Campo: Our very last question is another
00:14:20 --> 00:14:23 great question from Jake Johnston.
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26 He says. Hey, space nuts, quick question.
00:14:27 --> 00:14:29 While it is totally possible that there is no
00:14:29 --> 00:14:32 life in our solar system except for on Earth,
00:14:32 --> 00:14:35 if you had to guess where the most
00:14:35 --> 00:14:38 likely other place in our solar system is
00:14:38 --> 00:14:40 to find either current or ancient life,
00:14:41 --> 00:14:44 what would you choose? Titan. Mars.
00:14:44 --> 00:14:45 Thanks.
00:14:48 --> 00:14:50 Professor Fred Watson: let's give you a shot at this one, Heidi.
00:14:50 --> 00:14:51 What do you think the answer to that would
00:14:51 --> 00:14:52 be?
00:14:52 --> 00:14:54 Heidi Campo: Oh, you know, I was actually thinking in my
00:14:54 --> 00:14:56 head of playing a joke and just saying some
00:14:56 --> 00:14:58 random planet and then going, oh, oops, he
00:14:58 --> 00:15:01 must have meant this for you. I
00:15:01 --> 00:15:03 don't know. I really think that
00:15:05 --> 00:15:07 it's gonna, for some
00:15:07 --> 00:15:10 reason I think there's probably something on
00:15:10 --> 00:15:12 a moon somewhere because
00:15:13 --> 00:15:14 I'm just imagining
00:15:15 --> 00:15:18 primordial solar system, everything's
00:15:18 --> 00:15:21 crashing into each other and when
00:15:21 --> 00:15:24 it, when that matter ends up on a
00:15:24 --> 00:15:27 planet it's getting churned through its
00:15:27 --> 00:15:29 core and getting heated up and everything
00:15:29 --> 00:15:32 that maybe existed, even bacteria, is just
00:15:32 --> 00:15:35 getting cooked and destroyed. But on a moon
00:15:35 --> 00:15:37 it's not getting that turnover. So I would
00:15:37 --> 00:15:40 assume, and this is with my background
00:15:40 --> 00:15:42 not in this at all, I would assume that we
00:15:42 --> 00:15:43 would find something on a moon.
00:15:45 --> 00:15:47 Professor Fred Watson: I think you're right actually. so I
00:15:47 --> 00:15:50 guess the most obvious
00:15:50 --> 00:15:52 places to look, first of all Mars,
00:15:53 --> 00:15:56 Mars we know has been warm and wet
00:15:56 --> 00:15:58 in the past. we know that it was warm and wet
00:15:58 --> 00:16:00 at a time when the first living organisms
00:16:00 --> 00:16:03 were forming on Earth. So if all you need is
00:16:03 --> 00:16:05 the right atmospheric conditions while they
00:16:05 --> 00:16:08 were there on Mars. And so Mars
00:16:08 --> 00:16:11 may show signs of ancient microbial life.
00:16:11 --> 00:16:12 Unfortunately we don't at the moment have the
00:16:12 --> 00:16:15 wherewithal to find it. We've got samples
00:16:16 --> 00:16:19 of rocks and soil that have been taken by the
00:16:19 --> 00:16:21 Perseverance rover on Mars which are stashed
00:16:21 --> 00:16:23 away for a future mission to go and collect
00:16:23 --> 00:16:26 them. Sadly that mission is a bit in
00:16:26 --> 00:16:28 doubt at the moment because it's turned out
00:16:28 --> 00:16:30 to be very expensive. but there may be
00:16:30 --> 00:16:33 evidence on Mars. but you're
00:16:33 --> 00:16:35 absolutely right that some of the moons of
00:16:35 --> 00:16:38 the solar system are perhaps the next on the
00:16:38 --> 00:16:41 list because first of all, and
00:16:41 --> 00:16:43 this is the one that's really the poster
00:16:43 --> 00:16:45 child of looking for life on moons in the
00:16:45 --> 00:16:47 solar system is Europa. Europa, one
00:16:47 --> 00:16:50 of Jupiter's moons, which we know has
00:16:50 --> 00:16:53 a rocky core, it's got a liquid water ocean
00:16:53 --> 00:16:56 over that core, and that is sealed in
00:16:56 --> 00:16:58 by a layer of solid ice on top of it.
00:16:58 --> 00:17:01 And we have seen evidence of geysers
00:17:01 --> 00:17:04 of ice, crystals coming
00:17:04 --> 00:17:05 through that
00:17:07 --> 00:17:09 layer of ice because of cracks in it.
00:17:10 --> 00:17:12 there is evidence as well that there are
00:17:13 --> 00:17:16 quite complex carbon containing molecules,
00:17:16 --> 00:17:19 on the surface of Europa got a
00:17:19 --> 00:17:22 reddish brown colour which looks as though
00:17:22 --> 00:17:24 it's the effect of sunlight
00:17:25 --> 00:17:27 and solar radiation on these carbon
00:17:27 --> 00:17:29 containing molecules. So the ingredients for
00:17:29 --> 00:17:32 life might very well be there. likewise,
00:17:33 --> 00:17:35 further out in the solar system, Enceladus,
00:17:35 --> 00:17:38 Saturn's moon which was explored by Cassini,
00:17:38 --> 00:17:40 that definitely has these geysers of ice
00:17:40 --> 00:17:42 crystals because we've seen them and in fact
00:17:42 --> 00:17:44 Cassini flew through them and measured some
00:17:44 --> 00:17:47 of the contents, of them. in terms
00:17:47 --> 00:17:49 of it's mostly water ice, but there's also
00:17:49 --> 00:17:51 molecular hydrogen and some other really
00:17:51 --> 00:17:53 interesting ingredients that suggest that
00:17:53 --> 00:17:56 there are geothermal vents down at the bottom
00:17:56 --> 00:17:59 of Enceladus oceans. Maybe that
00:17:59 --> 00:18:01 is where life could have kicked off. We think
00:18:01 --> 00:18:03 life might have kicked off on Earth down in
00:18:03 --> 00:18:06 hydrothermal vents, maybe on Enceladus too.
00:18:07 --> 00:18:09 And you know, Dean mentions also Titan.
00:18:10 --> 00:18:12 I, beg your pardon, Jake. I'm sorry, Jake,
00:18:12 --> 00:18:15 the wrong name there. Jake also mentions
00:18:15 --> 00:18:17 Titan, which is another of these ice
00:18:17 --> 00:18:19 worlds with the same sort of structure and a
00:18:19 --> 00:18:22 liquid ocean, but it's also got these lakes
00:18:22 --> 00:18:25 of methane and ethane, natural liquefied
00:18:25 --> 00:18:28 natural gas. The only place we
00:18:28 --> 00:18:30 know anywhere in the universe other than
00:18:30 --> 00:18:33 Earth where there's liquid in equilibrium
00:18:33 --> 00:18:36 with an atmosphere. And Titan has a thick
00:18:36 --> 00:18:38 atmosphere, mostly carbon dioxide, but
00:18:38 --> 00:18:41 hydrocarbons in there as well. So these are
00:18:41 --> 00:18:44 all great candidates for living organisms.
00:18:44 --> 00:18:47 and if I had to pick one, let's go with
00:18:47 --> 00:18:50 Titan because I think you get two shots at it
00:18:50 --> 00:18:52 there. There might be water, based life in
00:18:52 --> 00:18:54 the oceans underneath the surface, but there
00:18:54 --> 00:18:57 might also be carbon, some weird carbon
00:18:57 --> 00:19:00 based life in the liquid, natural
00:19:00 --> 00:19:03 gas, lakes and seas on Titan. And we might
00:19:03 --> 00:19:05 find that when the Dragonfly spacecraft
00:19:05 --> 00:19:07 visits Titan later, in.
00:19:07 --> 00:19:10 Heidi Campo: The decade, these are
00:19:10 --> 00:19:11 all very exciting.
00:19:11 --> 00:19:14 I mean there is just so much happening in
00:19:14 --> 00:19:16 space right now. Every single week we are
00:19:16 --> 00:19:19 closer and closer to new breakthroughs and
00:19:19 --> 00:19:22 new discoveries. and I'll even share a
00:19:22 --> 00:19:25 program that I'm a part of that anybody who
00:19:25 --> 00:19:28 is a high school, or like if you're
00:19:28 --> 00:19:29 in high school, if you're doing your
00:19:29 --> 00:19:31 undergrad graduate or early career
00:19:31 --> 00:19:33 professional, you can join this too. It's
00:19:33 --> 00:19:35 called the L space, so l
00:19:35 --> 00:19:38 apostrophe space program. And it is
00:19:38 --> 00:19:41 a competitive proposal writing program
00:19:41 --> 00:19:44 where they select different individuals.
00:19:44 --> 00:19:46 So you can apply. I'm in the summer program
00:19:46 --> 00:19:48 right now, but you can apply for the fall
00:19:48 --> 00:19:50 program. But all of us got put into different
00:19:50 --> 00:19:53 interdisciplinary teams and we are going to
00:19:53 --> 00:19:56 be coming up with a proposal that is
00:19:56 --> 00:19:58 going to address one of NASA's gaps. And they
00:19:58 --> 00:20:01 have a whole training on how to write
00:20:01 --> 00:20:04 proposals the way NASA wants them written and
00:20:04 --> 00:20:06 the taxonomy of everything they're looking
00:20:06 --> 00:20:08 for. And the gaps that need to get filled.
00:20:08 --> 00:20:11 But the cool thing is, is that, the
00:20:11 --> 00:20:13 proposals that we come up with, one, of them
00:20:13 --> 00:20:15 will be selected as the winner. And the
00:20:15 --> 00:20:17 winner will get thousands of dollars of grant
00:20:17 --> 00:20:20 money and it will probably go on to become a
00:20:20 --> 00:20:22 real project. So if you are
00:20:22 --> 00:20:25 an engineer, even a high school or early
00:20:25 --> 00:20:28 career professional or anyone in between who
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30 feels like you have a lot of good ideas for
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33 discovering these kinds of things, like I've
00:20:33 --> 00:20:36 been co hosting now for a while and I've seen
00:20:36 --> 00:20:37 how smart you guys are. So I would really
00:20:37 --> 00:20:40 encourage you to all get involved and use
00:20:40 --> 00:20:43 your, creativity to help push humanity
00:20:43 --> 00:20:46 forward into the stars. Because every single
00:20:46 --> 00:20:48 one of you has something to add. And never,
00:20:48 --> 00:20:50 ever, ever let imposter syndrome get in the
00:20:50 --> 00:20:53 way of that. Because every creative mind
00:20:54 --> 00:20:56 add something to all of this. And that's my,
00:20:56 --> 00:20:58 that's my rah rah for this week.
00:20:59 --> 00:21:01 Professor Fred Watson: Remind us again what the program's called.
00:21:02 --> 00:21:04 Heidi Campo: It's L Space. So it's an L
00:21:04 --> 00:21:07 apostrophe and then S, P, A, C, E.
00:21:07 --> 00:21:09 And the program that I'm in, they have
00:21:09 --> 00:21:11 several different programs. So I'm in the,
00:21:11 --> 00:21:14 proposal writing. So np, W, E,
00:21:14 --> 00:21:17 E. NASA Proposal
00:21:17 --> 00:21:20 writing Experience. Something, something,
00:21:20 --> 00:21:22 something, something. It's. They love, they
00:21:22 --> 00:21:25 love acronyms. They just.
00:21:25 --> 00:21:28 They, But yeah, L, Space. and you can look
00:21:28 --> 00:21:30 that up. I can probably send the link to that
00:21:30 --> 00:21:33 to you guys to post, in the
00:21:33 --> 00:21:35 link and the description of this episode if
00:21:35 --> 00:21:38 anybody is interested in adding to
00:21:39 --> 00:21:41 their contributions into space.
00:21:42 --> 00:21:45 Professor Fred Watson: Fantastic. great program. and
00:21:45 --> 00:21:47 I look forward to checking out on the Web.
00:21:47 --> 00:21:49 Heidi Campo: On the Web, absolutely. Well, thank you so
00:21:49 --> 00:21:52 much, Fred. This has been another wonderful
00:21:52 --> 00:21:55 Q A session of Space Nuts.
00:21:55 --> 00:21:56 We'll catch you.
00:21:56 --> 00:21:56 Professor Fred Watson: Thank you.
00:21:57 --> 00:22:00 Heidi Campo: We'll catch you all next week. Bye for now.
00:22:01 --> 00:22:03 Generic: You've been listening to the Space Nuts
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