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Artemis 2 Updates, Cosmic Iron Bars, and the Role of Hydrogen Cyanide in Life's Origins
In this exciting episode of Space Nuts, hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson delve into the latest developments in space exploration and cosmic phenomena. Join them as they discuss the progress of the Artemis 2 mission, the discovery of a mysterious iron bar in the Ring Nebula, and the intriguing role of hydrogen cyanide in the potential origins of life.
Episode Highlights:
- Artemis 2 Progress: Andrew and Fred provide an update on the Artemis 2 mission, which recently moved to launch pad 39B at Cape Canaveral. They discuss the upcoming wet dress rehearsal and the significance of this mission as a precursor to future lunar explorations.
- The Iron Bar Mystery: The hosts explore a fascinating discovery in the Ring Nebula, where scientists have identified a linear structure made of highly ionized iron gas. They discuss its potential origins and what this could mean for our understanding of planetary nebulae.
- Hydrogen Cyanide and Life: Andrew and Fred examine a study suggesting that hydrogen cyanide, often seen as a deadly substance, may play a crucial role in the formation of prebiotic molecules. They ponder the implications for life on other celestial bodies, such as Titan.
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00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Andrew Dunkley: Hi there. Thanks for joining us again. This
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 is Space Nuts where we talk astronomy and
00:00:05 --> 00:00:07 space science every week. Twice a week in
00:00:07 --> 00:00:09 fact. Uh, on today's episode, we are
00:00:09 --> 00:00:12 going to look at the progress of Artemis 2.
00:00:12 --> 00:00:15 There's uh, an update for you and it's good
00:00:15 --> 00:00:17 news. Uh, this is a weird story. An iron
00:00:17 --> 00:00:20 bar seen in space. And no, it is
00:00:20 --> 00:00:22 not a runaway spanner from the International
00:00:22 --> 00:00:24 Space Station. Although that does happen.
00:00:25 --> 00:00:28 And something deadly that could be important
00:00:29 --> 00:00:31 in the origin of life. We'll find out about
00:00:31 --> 00:00:34 that on this episode of space nuts.
00:00:34 --> 00:00:36 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.
00:00:37 --> 00:00:39 Professor Fred Watson: 10, 9. Ignition
00:00:39 --> 00:00:41 sequence start. Space nuts.
00:00:41 --> 00:00:43 Andrew Dunkley: 5, 4, 3, 2.
00:00:43 --> 00:00:43 Professor Fred Watson: 1.
00:00:43 --> 00:00:46 Andrew Dunkley: 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4, 3, 2,
00:00:46 --> 00:00:49 1. Space nuts. Astronauts report it
00:00:49 --> 00:00:52 feels good. Back for more with
00:00:52 --> 00:00:54 stories galore is Professor Fred Watson,
00:00:54 --> 00:00:56 astronomer at large. Hello Fred.
00:00:57 --> 00:01:00 Professor Fred Watson: Good morning, Andrew. Or good whatever
00:01:00 --> 00:01:02 part of the day it is when you're listening
00:01:02 --> 00:01:02 to this.
00:01:02 --> 00:01:05 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, it's difficult dealing with a global
00:01:05 --> 00:01:07 audience, isn't it? Because you just don't
00:01:07 --> 00:01:09 know. You just don't know what time it is
00:01:09 --> 00:01:09 wherever.
00:01:10 --> 00:01:12 Professor Fred Watson: But uh, we basically know what time it is
00:01:12 --> 00:01:12 here.
00:01:13 --> 00:01:16 Andrew Dunkley: Well, it's eastern summertime is what it is.
00:01:16 --> 00:01:19 And uh, we are approaching the
00:01:19 --> 00:01:22 hottest time of the year in this
00:01:22 --> 00:01:24 part of the world. And I've been looking at
00:01:24 --> 00:01:26 the forecast, Fred, because uh, right now
00:01:26 --> 00:01:29 it's not too bad. You know, low, low to
00:01:29 --> 00:01:32 mid-30s, uh, Celsius, which some
00:01:32 --> 00:01:33 people would be horrified by. But for us
00:01:33 --> 00:01:36 that's pretty normal. But next week
00:01:37 --> 00:01:40 we are expected to hit, uh, a string
00:01:40 --> 00:01:42 of 40 plus temperatures peaking at
00:01:42 --> 00:01:45 45, 45,
00:01:45 --> 00:01:48 which is, uh, for those who don't use the
00:01:48 --> 00:01:51 metric system, that is 113
00:01:51 --> 00:01:53 degrees Fahrenheit. So
00:01:53 --> 00:01:56 that's um, that's what's coming up for us. I
00:01:56 --> 00:01:58 mean some people will hear this and it will
00:01:58 --> 00:02:00 already have happened and we won't be there
00:02:00 --> 00:02:01 next week. And they'll wonder why. Well,
00:02:01 --> 00:02:03 that's the answer. We're just going to burn.
00:02:03 --> 00:02:06 We are. Burn, burn, burn. Uh,
00:02:06 --> 00:02:09 yeah. Horrific. It's been horrific. We had a
00:02:09 --> 00:02:11 massive storm here the other day and it, uh,
00:02:11 --> 00:02:13 ripped through the city. I actually looked at
00:02:13 --> 00:02:16 it on the radar. It was only a really small
00:02:16 --> 00:02:19 cell, but gee, it was intense.
00:02:19 --> 00:02:21 It absolutely devastated the golf course. We
00:02:21 --> 00:02:24 lost a lot of trees and branches. Uh, but it
00:02:24 --> 00:02:27 happened all over town. So yeah, we've had
00:02:27 --> 00:02:29 some pretty uh, radical weather of late. And
00:02:29 --> 00:02:31 now we're going to hit a heat wave and I
00:02:31 --> 00:02:33 don't, I think we've got like six or seven
00:02:34 --> 00:02:37 days in a row at least. Over the old
00:02:37 --> 00:02:38 100 Fahrenheit.
00:02:39 --> 00:02:40 Professor Fred Watson: So there you go.
00:02:40 --> 00:02:42 Andrew Dunkley: Looking forward to that.
00:02:42 --> 00:02:44 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, I'm sure you are. It's a bit more
00:02:44 --> 00:02:46 temperate here on the coast, but, uh, we did
00:02:46 --> 00:02:49 have a day wheat last Saturday where it
00:02:49 --> 00:02:52 was, uh, 43 was the highest I. I saw.
00:02:52 --> 00:02:54 I was out and about and it's.
00:02:54 --> 00:02:56 Andrew Dunkley: Been quite a few years, quite a few years
00:02:56 --> 00:02:59 since we had a 45 here. But I do remember one
00:02:59 --> 00:03:02 some years ago and it. Yeah, it was horrible.
00:03:02 --> 00:03:05 They actually forecast 47 or 48 that day and
00:03:05 --> 00:03:07 it didn't get there thankfully. But
00:03:08 --> 00:03:10 hopefully m. It won't do it again this year.
00:03:10 --> 00:03:12 But, um, it's been a long time since we've
00:03:12 --> 00:03:14 had temperatures like this. Um,
00:03:15 --> 00:03:17 for a few years in a row we didn't even make
00:03:17 --> 00:03:20 40. But, um, yeah, we're
00:03:20 --> 00:03:23 getting at least four in a row next week.
00:03:23 --> 00:03:26 Anyway. Um. Oh, and the other thing that's
00:03:26 --> 00:03:28 been really exciting this week, uh, is,
00:03:29 --> 00:03:31 um, the auroral activity in,
00:03:32 --> 00:03:34 uh, if you saw anything. No, I went out
00:03:34 --> 00:03:37 last night and didn't see anything. It's too
00:03:37 --> 00:03:39 much light and I thought, oh, uh, well, I go
00:03:39 --> 00:03:42 out of town. Uh, how far
00:03:42 --> 00:03:45 do I go? Where do I go to get a perch?
00:03:45 --> 00:03:48 Because it's pretty flat out here. Um, but I
00:03:48 --> 00:03:50 didn't see anything. There was one photo I
00:03:50 --> 00:03:53 took where it may. There was a little bit of
00:03:53 --> 00:03:56 a purple sheen in the distance maybe.
00:03:56 --> 00:03:57 I don't know. Uh,
00:03:59 --> 00:04:01 last night. The night before was better.
00:04:01 --> 00:04:04 It was this morning, of course, I wake up
00:04:04 --> 00:04:06 to all these amazing photos that people have
00:04:06 --> 00:04:09 taken and they saw them as far north as
00:04:09 --> 00:04:11 southern Queensland.
00:04:11 --> 00:04:12 Professor Fred Watson: So. Yeah, that's right.
00:04:12 --> 00:04:15 Andrew Dunkley: It's been a very intense solar storm that's,
00:04:15 --> 00:04:17 um, that's caused all this. But it looks like
00:04:17 --> 00:04:18 I missed the boat again.
00:04:18 --> 00:04:21 Professor Fred Watson: Fred just got to come with
00:04:21 --> 00:04:22 us to the Arctic sometime.
00:04:22 --> 00:04:25 Andrew Dunkley: Oh, look. Yeah, the other thing I
00:04:25 --> 00:04:28 saw this morning, um, was
00:04:28 --> 00:04:31 there's a, um, a trip to the Arctic this year
00:04:31 --> 00:04:33 to watch the solar eclipse. That'll
00:04:33 --> 00:04:36 be a big one. I think that's in, um, August,
00:04:37 --> 00:04:39 is it? Or was that last?
00:04:40 --> 00:04:43 Professor Fred Watson: Um, no, um, there is.
00:04:44 --> 00:04:45 I thought it was the Antarctic.
00:04:45 --> 00:04:46 Andrew Dunkley: Oh, ah, it might be.
00:04:46 --> 00:04:49 Professor Fred Watson: I just kissed. Yeah, I think that's probably
00:04:49 --> 00:04:49 it.
00:04:52 --> 00:04:54 There is an eclipse in August. It's the 12th
00:04:54 --> 00:04:57 of August. We'll be watching that from, uh,
00:04:57 --> 00:05:00 northern Spain. Um, so we're taking
00:05:00 --> 00:05:02 one of Mani's tour groups up there to see the
00:05:02 --> 00:05:02 eclipse.
00:05:03 --> 00:05:04 Andrew Dunkley: Well, that's the one they were talking about.
00:05:06 --> 00:05:07 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, I think the. I think the one you're
00:05:07 --> 00:05:09 talking about Was untitled together. And it's
00:05:09 --> 00:05:11 not the same Eclipse anyway. All right, never
00:05:11 --> 00:05:11 mind.
00:05:12 --> 00:05:14 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I can see the one. The one I was
00:05:14 --> 00:05:16 thinking of is the one you're going to see.
00:05:17 --> 00:05:18 Okay. Yeah.
00:05:18 --> 00:05:20 Professor Fred Watson: All right. Okay. Yeah. Might start in the
00:05:20 --> 00:05:21 Arctic.
00:05:21 --> 00:05:23 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, it's crossing all the places we were
00:05:23 --> 00:05:26 visiting last year. So
00:05:26 --> 00:05:27 we're all.
00:05:27 --> 00:05:28 We're a year too early.
00:05:29 --> 00:05:30 Nevermind.
00:05:30 --> 00:05:32 Professor Fred Watson: Always ahead of. Always ahead of the game.
00:05:33 --> 00:05:35 Andrew Dunkley: Yes. Always get through Dodge before the
00:05:35 --> 00:05:37 disaster. That's what, that's our philosophy.
00:05:38 --> 00:05:40 Um, we've got a bit to get through so we'll.
00:05:40 --> 00:05:43 We'll start with um, this exciting
00:05:43 --> 00:05:46 news and that is an update on the Artemis 2
00:05:46 --> 00:05:48 mission. Now we only mentioned that a week or
00:05:48 --> 00:05:51 so ago, uh, that it was one of the big
00:05:51 --> 00:05:54 things happening in 2026. Uh, it's starting
00:05:54 --> 00:05:56 to happen. They've started moving stuff.
00:05:57 --> 00:06:00 Professor Fred Watson: That's right. Uh, so, um,
00:06:00 --> 00:06:03 as we speak, the uh,
00:06:03 --> 00:06:06 Artemis II stack, if that's what you call it,
00:06:06 --> 00:06:09 with the space, uh, launch system and its
00:06:09 --> 00:06:12 two solid rocket boosters and the uh,
00:06:12 --> 00:06:15 service module, the. I nearly said
00:06:15 --> 00:06:17 Apollo there, the Orion capsule on top,
00:06:18 --> 00:06:21 uh, is sitting on launch pad 39B,
00:06:21 --> 00:06:24 uh, which is very famous. Part of the
00:06:24 --> 00:06:27 launch facility, uh, um, at Cape
00:06:27 --> 00:06:30 Canaveral. So, uh, yes, it's made
00:06:30 --> 00:06:33 its journey from the uh, Vehicle Assembly
00:06:33 --> 00:06:36 Building, uh, to launch pad
00:06:36 --> 00:06:38 39B, which if I remember
00:06:38 --> 00:06:41 rightly is 6km. And it took 12 hours to do
00:06:41 --> 00:06:44 it. So a half a kilometer per hour.
00:06:44 --> 00:06:47 Um, uh. Is that right? Yes, that's right.
00:06:48 --> 00:06:50 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. I think it's like 0.82 of a
00:06:50 --> 00:06:52 mile per hour or something like that.
00:06:52 --> 00:06:55 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's what I saw too. Um, I
00:06:55 --> 00:06:58 think when you average it out it comes to
00:06:58 --> 00:07:00 half a kilometer an hour. But I think it's a
00:07:00 --> 00:07:02 little bit more than that, uh, in terms of
00:07:02 --> 00:07:05 um, the maximum speed when it
00:07:05 --> 00:07:08 accelerated up to full speed, 0.82
00:07:08 --> 00:07:11 miles per hour. Uh, so that is the start of
00:07:11 --> 00:07:13 the journey to the moon, uh, which is really
00:07:13 --> 00:07:15 quite nice. Um, and Artemis 2.
00:07:16 --> 00:07:18 Yes, the mission, uh, will we
00:07:18 --> 00:07:21 hope, ah, actually launch
00:07:21 --> 00:07:24 within the next few months. What we do know
00:07:24 --> 00:07:27 is that uh, there is to be
00:07:27 --> 00:07:30 um, a wet. What's called
00:07:30 --> 00:07:33 a wet, um, test. Is
00:07:33 --> 00:07:36 that the right word? Uh, a wet.
00:07:36 --> 00:07:38 Dress rehearsal. That's. That's the correct
00:07:38 --> 00:07:40 term. Uh, where it's fully fueled up,
00:07:41 --> 00:07:43 uh, and basically uh,
00:07:43 --> 00:07:46 undergoes a countdown, a dummy countdown, uh,
00:07:46 --> 00:07:49 everything as if you were about to launch but
00:07:49 --> 00:07:52 you don't launch. Uh, and we're told that
00:07:52 --> 00:07:54 is not going to happen any later than
00:07:55 --> 00:07:56 basically next Week our time or the week
00:07:56 --> 00:07:59 after next, which is, uh,
00:07:59 --> 00:08:02 February 2nd is the date that we've got. So,
00:08:03 --> 00:08:05 um, that will be exciting to see how
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 that, uh, how that goes. Whether everything
00:08:08 --> 00:08:10 goes flawlessly or whether they find
00:08:10 --> 00:08:13 a gotcha and have to wheel it back to the
00:08:13 --> 00:08:14 vehicle assembly building. Which has
00:08:14 --> 00:08:14 happened.
00:08:14 --> 00:08:16 Andrew Dunkley: That's happened before, hasn't it?
00:08:16 --> 00:08:19 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, it did with Artemis 1. In fact, I think
00:08:19 --> 00:08:21 it happened two or three times, didn't, if I
00:08:21 --> 00:08:24 remember rightly. Uh, because they've got to
00:08:24 --> 00:08:25 get this right and they've got to, you know,
00:08:25 --> 00:08:27 it's got to be right. And it will be, uh.
00:08:27 --> 00:08:27 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah.
00:08:27 --> 00:08:29 Professor Fred Watson: Is the bottom line. Yeah.
00:08:29 --> 00:08:32 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, indeed. But it's exciting. I think
00:08:32 --> 00:08:34 it has been delayed. It was supposed to go
00:08:34 --> 00:08:35 last year, wasn't it?
00:08:36 --> 00:08:38 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, that's correct. Yes. Uh, indeed, that's
00:08:38 --> 00:08:41 true. Uh, I mean, the whole
00:08:41 --> 00:08:44 project has suffered, uh, delays.
00:08:44 --> 00:08:47 Uh, there is one bit of good news, though,
00:08:47 --> 00:08:49 which has come out of
00:08:50 --> 00:08:53 Congress. Uh, I think I should get my
00:08:53 --> 00:08:56 terms right. But the NASA funding,
00:08:56 --> 00:08:59 uh, for next year or for this year,
00:09:00 --> 00:09:03 uh, seems to be, uh, much more secure
00:09:03 --> 00:09:05 than was previously thought. Some of the big
00:09:05 --> 00:09:08 cuts that were being planned have sort of
00:09:08 --> 00:09:11 evaporated. Uh, and I think the funding level
00:09:11 --> 00:09:13 for NASA this year, uh, is not that much.
00:09:13 --> 00:09:16 I think it's on a par with what they received
00:09:16 --> 00:09:17 last year. Um, uh,
00:09:18 --> 00:09:20 notwithstanding the fact that, yes, the Mars
00:09:20 --> 00:09:23 Sample Return Mission has still been axed
00:09:23 --> 00:09:25 from that budget. But that leaves room for
00:09:25 --> 00:09:28 some other things to be funded. And no doubt
00:09:28 --> 00:09:30 there'll be further talks on how we get these
00:09:31 --> 00:09:33 canisters of, uh, Martian soil back from,
00:09:34 --> 00:09:36 uh, Mars, uh, before we all die.
00:09:36 --> 00:09:36 Andrew Dunkley: Yes.
00:09:37 --> 00:09:38 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, well, hope.
00:09:39 --> 00:09:42 Andrew Dunkley: Let's hope somebody, um, riding a trail bike
00:09:42 --> 00:09:44 up there one day comes across it and goes,
00:09:44 --> 00:09:45 oi, what's this?
00:09:45 --> 00:09:46 Professor Fred Watson: What's this?
00:09:46 --> 00:09:48 Andrew Dunkley: Who left this here? Um,
00:09:49 --> 00:09:51 but yeah, uh, it's good news. Uh, and we
00:09:51 --> 00:09:54 should mention the astronauts involved. Uh,
00:09:54 --> 00:09:57 Reed Wiseman, Victor Glover, Christina
00:09:57 --> 00:10:00 Koch, uh, and they're all from,
00:10:00 --> 00:10:03 uh. Uh, NASA, Americans. And then you've got,
00:10:03 --> 00:10:06 uh. From the Canadian Space Agency, Jeremy
00:10:06 --> 00:10:09 Hansen. And, uh, they'll be
00:10:09 --> 00:10:12 journeying out and around and back,
00:10:12 --> 00:10:14 uh, over a period of 10 days, which is about
00:10:14 --> 00:10:16 the same length as the average Apollo
00:10:16 --> 00:10:19 mission. Although there was one mission that
00:10:19 --> 00:10:22 only went five days because, well, they
00:10:22 --> 00:10:23 couldn't stop because they.
00:10:23 --> 00:10:24 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right.
00:10:25 --> 00:10:26 Andrew Dunkley: They had a bit of an.
00:10:26 --> 00:10:28 Professor Fred Watson: That was another story. Yeah, but
00:10:29 --> 00:10:31 it's true. It's reminiscent of Apollo 8.
00:10:31 --> 00:10:34 Uh, you know, my Christmas Day. Wasn't it,
00:10:35 --> 00:10:38 uh, Christmas Eve, I think Something like
00:10:38 --> 00:10:39 Christmas Eve. I think it was Christmas eve.
00:10:39 --> 00:10:42 Yeah, yeah, 1968. Um,
00:10:42 --> 00:10:45 um, but, but what's different though is
00:10:45 --> 00:10:47 I think their orbits around the backside of
00:10:47 --> 00:10:50 the moon will be uh, at a higher
00:10:50 --> 00:10:53 distance from the lunar surface than we
00:10:53 --> 00:10:55 saw with the Apollo mission. So uh, these
00:10:55 --> 00:10:58 astronauts will be uh, will hold a record
00:10:58 --> 00:11:00 as being the furthest humans,
00:11:01 --> 00:11:03 the furthest that humans have been from
00:11:03 --> 00:11:05 planet Earth after the end of their mission.
00:11:05 --> 00:11:08 Andrew Dunkley: So yeah, that record currently held by
00:11:08 --> 00:11:08 Michael Collins.
00:11:10 --> 00:11:11 Professor Fred Watson: That is correct, yes, yes.
00:11:12 --> 00:11:14 Andrew Dunkley: In fact there's a famous photo I think I've
00:11:14 --> 00:11:17 mentioned before that Michael Collins took
00:11:17 --> 00:11:19 which uh, showed uh, the moon where
00:11:20 --> 00:11:22 Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin were on the
00:11:22 --> 00:11:24 surface at the time and Earth in the
00:11:24 --> 00:11:26 background. And it basically said every
00:11:27 --> 00:11:30 human being that's ever existed is in
00:11:30 --> 00:11:31 this photo. Except
00:11:33 --> 00:11:34 I think that's great.
00:11:34 --> 00:11:36 Professor Fred Watson: That was him. Yeah, yeah.
00:11:37 --> 00:11:40 Andrew Dunkley: I mean, you think it's
00:11:40 --> 00:11:42 pretty. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty deep. When
00:11:42 --> 00:11:45 you take a photo and someone says to you,
00:11:45 --> 00:11:47 lady, do you realize you're the only human
00:11:47 --> 00:11:50 human being in history that's not in that
00:11:50 --> 00:11:52 photograph? I reckon
00:11:52 --> 00:11:55 that's uh, that's incredible. Yeah. Uh, of
00:11:55 --> 00:11:56 course people come back and say, oh, but what
00:11:56 --> 00:11:58 about the people on the other side of the
00:11:58 --> 00:11:59 planet that weren't in the picture? Well they
00:11:59 --> 00:12:01 were on the planet so they're in the picture.
00:12:01 --> 00:12:01 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:12:02 --> 00:12:04 Andrew Dunkley: We could use a bit of creative license
00:12:04 --> 00:12:05 surely.
00:12:05 --> 00:12:05 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right.
00:12:07 --> 00:12:09 Andrew Dunkley: Um, we should also mention why
00:12:09 --> 00:12:12 this mission is happening. And it's
00:12:12 --> 00:12:15 based around putting long
00:12:15 --> 00:12:18 term humans or a long term human
00:12:18 --> 00:12:20 presence on the lunar surface. But the
00:12:20 --> 00:12:23 ultimate goal is to create that springboard
00:12:23 --> 00:12:25 for missions to Mars. So
00:12:27 --> 00:12:29 it's part of a long term venture, I suppose.
00:12:30 --> 00:12:33 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, I think actually it's got an
00:12:33 --> 00:12:35 immediacy about it that um, um
00:12:37 --> 00:12:39 M makes the Mars issue, uh,
00:12:40 --> 00:12:43 perhaps not uh, reducing its
00:12:43 --> 00:12:46 significance, but uh,
00:12:46 --> 00:12:49 giving us a good reason to be on the
00:12:49 --> 00:12:52 moon anyway. And that's the possible
00:12:52 --> 00:12:54 resources that are on the moon. Plus there's
00:12:54 --> 00:12:57 still a geopolitical aspect of
00:12:57 --> 00:12:59 this exactly as there was in the 1960s.
00:13:00 --> 00:13:02 Um, the Americans are very keen to get there
00:13:02 --> 00:13:05 before Chinese Taikonauts walk on the lunar
00:13:05 --> 00:13:07 surface, which they're certainly uh, planning
00:13:07 --> 00:13:10 to do by 2030. That is what we hear.
00:13:10 --> 00:13:13 But you're right, um, I mean Artemis 2 is
00:13:13 --> 00:13:16 a precursor to Artemis 3, which is likely to
00:13:16 --> 00:13:18 be not next year but the following year.
00:13:18 --> 00:13:20 There's still a lot of work to do on that,
00:13:20 --> 00:13:22 uh, where four astronauts will land on the
00:13:22 --> 00:13:25 lunar surface. And that in a sense
00:13:25 --> 00:13:28 is perhaps the opening gambit for a
00:13:28 --> 00:13:30 permanent, uh, or a semi permanent human
00:13:30 --> 00:13:32 presence on Mars. And yes, you're right.
00:13:32 --> 00:13:35 Eventually that will lead to, we hope,
00:13:36 --> 00:13:38 uh, expertise that we can gather that will
00:13:38 --> 00:13:41 take astronauts to Mars not to
00:13:41 --> 00:13:43 colonize it, but to explore it
00:13:44 --> 00:13:46 in a suitably ethical way.
00:13:46 --> 00:13:48 Andrew Dunkley: You hope not to colonize it?
00:13:49 --> 00:13:50 Professor Fred Watson: Well, that's right.
00:13:52 --> 00:13:54 Andrew Dunkley: Okay, um, yeah, very exciting news.
00:13:54 --> 00:13:57 And uh, hopefully all will go well
00:13:57 --> 00:14:00 with the, uh, with the tests. In uh, fact,
00:14:00 --> 00:14:01 they're talking about doing it more than once
00:14:01 --> 00:14:04 if they've got time. Um, but
00:14:04 --> 00:14:06 yeah, it'll be, uh, it'll be,
00:14:06 --> 00:14:09 it'll bring about the same level of
00:14:09 --> 00:14:12 excitement, I suppose, that we enjoyed in
00:14:12 --> 00:14:14 the 60s with the Apollo missions. Because
00:14:14 --> 00:14:15 you've got a whole new generation that
00:14:15 --> 00:14:18 weren't around to see that. And so this is
00:14:18 --> 00:14:21 all fresh and new for them. I reckon that
00:14:21 --> 00:14:24 that's right. That will revive the, the
00:14:24 --> 00:14:27 interest in, uh, space science,
00:14:27 --> 00:14:30 uh, as well, I suppose. Uh, if you'd
00:14:30 --> 00:14:32 like to read all about it, you can log on to
00:14:32 --> 00:14:34 scitech Daily. But I think you'll probably
00:14:34 --> 00:14:37 find there's plenty of news on plenty of
00:14:37 --> 00:14:39 platforms, including the NASA website. This
00:14:39 --> 00:14:41 is Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley and
00:14:41 --> 00:14:43 Professor Fred Watson.
00:14:46 --> 00:14:48 Three, two, one.
00:14:48 --> 00:14:51 Space Nuts. Okay, Fred, uh,
00:14:51 --> 00:14:54 this weird story has, uh, been
00:14:54 --> 00:14:57 published in a, in a paper about a
00:14:57 --> 00:15:00 nebula that is demonstrating something that
00:15:01 --> 00:15:03 at this point in time is inexplicable.
00:15:04 --> 00:15:07 Uh, they know what it is, they don't know why
00:15:07 --> 00:15:07 it is.
00:15:08 --> 00:15:11 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, exactly. And so this story is
00:15:11 --> 00:15:13 about perhaps one of the most famous,
00:15:14 --> 00:15:16 um, celestial objects in the northern sky.
00:15:17 --> 00:15:20 Uh, an object called the Ring Nebula, uh,
00:15:20 --> 00:15:23 because it's shaped like a ring. Uh, it's in
00:15:23 --> 00:15:25 the constellation of Lyra one that,
00:15:25 --> 00:15:27 um, certainly I've been aware of ever since I
00:15:27 --> 00:15:29 first became interested in astronomy in the
00:15:29 --> 00:15:32 1950s. Um, it is
00:15:32 --> 00:15:35 a, uh, planetary nebula. And that is
00:15:35 --> 00:15:38 a bit of a misnomer term. It was one coined
00:15:38 --> 00:15:40 by William Herschel in the early 1800s.
00:15:40 --> 00:15:42 Because these things kind of look like
00:15:42 --> 00:15:44 planets, but they're nothing to do with
00:15:44 --> 00:15:45 planets. They're not in the solar system.
00:15:45 --> 00:15:47 They are clouds of gas. And we now know that
00:15:47 --> 00:15:50 they are the bubbles of gas that are puffed
00:15:50 --> 00:15:52 off by, uh, uh,
00:15:52 --> 00:15:55 giant stars in their old age. Um, and we
00:15:55 --> 00:15:57 also know that the sun will go through a
00:15:57 --> 00:16:00 phase where eventually it's surrounded by a
00:16:00 --> 00:16:02 nebula, a planetary nebula, very like the
00:16:02 --> 00:16:05 Ring Nebula. So, um, we
00:16:05 --> 00:16:08 know a lot about that nebula. And
00:16:08 --> 00:16:11 um, what. There's a sort of slightly personal
00:16:11 --> 00:16:14 aspect to this story because a, uh,
00:16:14 --> 00:16:16 telescope that I Worked on quite commonly in
00:16:16 --> 00:16:19 the 1990s, uh, the William Herschel
00:16:19 --> 00:16:22 telescope, uh, which was uh, then operated
00:16:22 --> 00:16:24 by the uk I think it's now the UK
00:16:25 --> 00:16:28 and some other. Uh, Sorry,
00:16:28 --> 00:16:30 I'm gonna cancel this. I
00:16:30 --> 00:16:33 can't take that call. Don't know if you heard
00:16:33 --> 00:16:34 that but my.
00:16:34 --> 00:16:34 Andrew Dunkley: No I did.
00:16:34 --> 00:16:37 Professor Fred Watson: Ringing. It's ringing. My
00:16:37 --> 00:16:37 earphones.
00:16:37 --> 00:16:38 Andrew Dunkley: Sorry.
00:16:38 --> 00:16:41 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry. I'll call them
00:16:41 --> 00:16:44 back shortly. Um, uh,
00:16:44 --> 00:16:46 it's ah, the telescope
00:16:46 --> 00:16:48 that was uh, built in the
00:16:50 --> 00:16:52 late 1980s, commissioned I think around about
00:16:52 --> 00:16:55 1990. Uh, as I said I worked on it
00:16:56 --> 00:16:58 in the 1990s. A 4.2 meter
00:16:58 --> 00:17:01 telescope which is situated uh, at
00:17:01 --> 00:17:03 a place called uh, El Roque de los
00:17:03 --> 00:17:06 Mochachos, which is the name of a fique
00:17:06 --> 00:17:09 in island of La Palma. It's a volcanic
00:17:09 --> 00:17:12 peak. Uh, and there is a major global
00:17:12 --> 00:17:15 observatory there. Um, uh,
00:17:15 --> 00:17:18 it's as I said, 4.2 meter telescope. Uh,
00:17:18 --> 00:17:20 I think it's now jointly operated by a number
00:17:20 --> 00:17:23 of uh, different nations. It was built by
00:17:23 --> 00:17:26 the Brits, uh and uh, was
00:17:26 --> 00:17:28 for a while something like the third biggest
00:17:28 --> 00:17:30 telescope in the Northern hemisphere. I
00:17:30 --> 00:17:32 think. Um, it
00:17:32 --> 00:17:35 uh, uh, has an instrument on it
00:17:35 --> 00:17:36 uh, which is sort of.
00:17:36 --> 00:17:37 Andrew Dunkley: Let me guess, let me guess.
00:17:37 --> 00:17:38 Professor Fred Watson: Descendant.
00:17:38 --> 00:17:41 Andrew Dunkley: It's a saxophone. Sorry, I couldn't help.
00:17:41 --> 00:17:43 Professor Fred Watson: No, it's an E flat trombone.
00:17:45 --> 00:17:48 It's, it's a um, an
00:17:48 --> 00:17:51 instrument which is, I was going to say is a
00:17:51 --> 00:17:53 descendant of a. Let me rephrase that. It is
00:17:53 --> 00:17:56 an optical instrument, uh, which is a
00:17:56 --> 00:17:59 descendant of something I was very deeply
00:17:59 --> 00:18:01 involved with when I was there. I was project
00:18:01 --> 00:18:04 scientist for a thing called a spectrograph,
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07 which is um, the device that splits up
00:18:07 --> 00:18:10 light uh, and lets us see that barcode of
00:18:10 --> 00:18:12 information in the light of a star or
00:18:12 --> 00:18:15 galaxy or indeed a planetary nebula. Uh,
00:18:15 --> 00:18:18 but the new version of that we were using
00:18:18 --> 00:18:21 optical fibers, uh, to look at individual
00:18:21 --> 00:18:23 objects. Uh the new version uses uh,
00:18:24 --> 00:18:27 optical fibers again, but in such a way
00:18:27 --> 00:18:29 that you can look at an object like this
00:18:29 --> 00:18:32 nebula and for every point on the image
00:18:32 --> 00:18:35 you can get a spectrum. Uh and uh,
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38 it's a technology which is known as integral
00:18:38 --> 00:18:40 Field spectroscopy. And
00:18:40 --> 00:18:43 uh, they have built something called a lifu,
00:18:43 --> 00:18:46 which is a large integral field unit for
00:18:46 --> 00:18:48 the WEAVE instrument, which is the
00:18:48 --> 00:18:51 WHT Enhanced Area
00:18:51 --> 00:18:53 Velocity Explorer. Uh, great
00:18:53 --> 00:18:56 stuff. And the bottom line is to get
00:18:56 --> 00:18:59 to the end of this long rambling story. This
00:18:59 --> 00:19:01 is a brand new instrument that is just
00:19:02 --> 00:19:05 tested. And what better object to test
00:19:05 --> 00:19:08 it on than this lovely northern hemisphere
00:19:08 --> 00:19:10 nebula, the Ring Nebula. And so that's what
00:19:11 --> 00:19:13 they've done. A group of scientists, uh,
00:19:13 --> 00:19:16 mostly, I think from the uk uh, they've used
00:19:16 --> 00:19:18 the Ring Nebula just to make sure that the
00:19:18 --> 00:19:20 WEAVE spectrograph works properly and
00:19:21 --> 00:19:23 does everything they want it to. And they've
00:19:23 --> 00:19:25 uncovered a complete surprise,
00:19:26 --> 00:19:28 uh, that has blown everybody's mind because
00:19:28 --> 00:19:31 nobody understands it. And that is exactly
00:19:31 --> 00:19:34 as you've said, it's an iron bar. Now, um,
00:19:34 --> 00:19:36 when you talk about a bar in astronomy, it's
00:19:36 --> 00:19:38 not something you prop yourself up against
00:19:38 --> 00:19:41 to, um, get over all your problems.
00:19:41 --> 00:19:44 Uh, although you can do that if you want. Uh,
00:19:45 --> 00:19:48 uh, usually it's a
00:19:48 --> 00:19:51 structure, a linear structure, um,
00:19:51 --> 00:19:54 often made of stars. Uh, galaxies often
00:19:54 --> 00:19:56 have a bar across the middle. We call them
00:19:56 --> 00:19:59 barred spiral galaxies. And that bar is made
00:19:59 --> 00:20:02 of stars which are circulating in a, in
00:20:02 --> 00:20:04 a very elliptical orbit around the
00:20:04 --> 00:20:07 center of the galaxy. So it looks like
00:20:07 --> 00:20:10 essentially a solid bar of material.
00:20:10 --> 00:20:13 It's actually made of stars. So the bar in
00:20:13 --> 00:20:16 the Ring Nebula is not made of stars.
00:20:16 --> 00:20:18 It's made of gas. Uh, but what
00:20:19 --> 00:20:21 is interesting is that that gas is
00:20:21 --> 00:20:23 highly ionized. That means energized,
00:20:24 --> 00:20:27 uh, version of iron. So this is a
00:20:27 --> 00:20:30 plasma of iron atoms. Uh,
00:20:31 --> 00:20:33 and, um, one of the interesting comments that
00:20:33 --> 00:20:36 comes out of the, um, data, um, that's
00:20:36 --> 00:20:39 been released on this, uh,
00:20:39 --> 00:20:42 piece, um, of research is that the total mass
00:20:42 --> 00:20:44 of the iron that's in that bar
00:20:45 --> 00:20:47 is comparable to the mass of Mars. Um,
00:20:47 --> 00:20:50 that is quite significant, and I love
00:20:50 --> 00:20:53 this comment. Its length is about equal to
00:20:53 --> 00:20:56 500 times the orbit of Pluto around the Sun.
00:20:56 --> 00:20:59 Uh, and so it's, you know, if you imagine
00:20:59 --> 00:21:01 Pluto's orbit, multiply it by 500 times and
00:21:01 --> 00:21:03 then take its diameter. That's how big this
00:21:03 --> 00:21:06 iron bar is. Uh, so it's not an iron bar in
00:21:06 --> 00:21:08 the sense that something you can pick up and
00:21:08 --> 00:21:11 hit somebody on the head with if you're that
00:21:11 --> 00:21:13 way inclined. And I'm certainly not, uh,
00:21:14 --> 00:21:16 uh, but it's an iron bar in the sense of a
00:21:16 --> 00:21:19 barred structure in what is
00:21:19 --> 00:21:22 completely normally expected to be
00:21:22 --> 00:21:24 quite spherically symmetrical. Because this
00:21:24 --> 00:21:27 is a bubble of material. The Ring Nebula is a
00:21:27 --> 00:21:29 bubble of gas. And yet here in the middle of
00:21:29 --> 00:21:32 it is this linear feature, a bar, uh,
00:21:33 --> 00:21:35 made of highly ionized ion atoms.
00:21:35 --> 00:21:38 So as you said at the beginning, Andrew,
00:21:38 --> 00:21:41 the big question now is where did it come
00:21:41 --> 00:21:41 from?
00:21:41 --> 00:21:44 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. Why is it there? What happened to
00:21:44 --> 00:21:47 create that? Because it sounds like it's
00:21:47 --> 00:21:49 unique. There's nothing else like it yet
00:21:49 --> 00:21:49 found.
00:21:50 --> 00:21:51 Professor Fred Watson: Not that we know of. That's right. But
00:21:51 --> 00:21:54 nobody's looked for iron in the
00:21:54 --> 00:21:57 center of these objects. So,
00:21:57 --> 00:22:00 um, I think, uh,
00:22:00 --> 00:22:03 there is, you know, a, um, um, this
00:22:03 --> 00:22:06 sort of. Well as the, as the article
00:22:06 --> 00:22:09 we might quote because this is from our old
00:22:09 --> 00:22:11 friend Universe Today. It's by Evan Gough.
00:22:11 --> 00:22:13 Uh, the um, the
00:22:14 --> 00:22:17 bottom line is that
00:22:17 --> 00:22:20 uh, there are two, uh, let me, let me, let me
00:22:20 --> 00:22:22 just read because this is uh, this is quite
00:22:22 --> 00:22:22 nicely put.
00:22:22 --> 00:22:25 There are two broad exploration explanations
00:22:25 --> 00:22:27 for this iron bar. Uh, one is that it reveals
00:22:27 --> 00:22:30 something new about how star. And
00:22:30 --> 00:22:33 that's the star that eventually gave rise to
00:22:33 --> 00:22:35 the nebula, how the central star ejected its
00:22:35 --> 00:22:37 material. Uh, the other is that
00:22:38 --> 00:22:41 the iron bar is the remnant of a planet
00:22:41 --> 00:22:44 that was vaporized and destroyed by the star
00:22:44 --> 00:22:47 as it expanded into a red giant. That's
00:22:47 --> 00:22:49 a really, really interesting uh,
00:22:49 --> 00:22:52 conjecture that what we're seeing is perhaps
00:22:52 --> 00:22:54 the um, remnant that the
00:22:55 --> 00:22:57 vaporized core of a
00:22:57 --> 00:23:00 planet, perhaps a rocky planet that was in
00:23:00 --> 00:23:02 orbit around the star. Uh, when it turned
00:23:02 --> 00:23:05 into a red giant, uh, it was vaporized.
00:23:05 --> 00:23:08 And what we are left with is this streak
00:23:08 --> 00:23:11 of, uh, highly ionized
00:23:11 --> 00:23:13 gas, uh, highly energized gas,
00:23:14 --> 00:23:16 uh, made of iron, across the middle of the
00:23:16 --> 00:23:18 nebula. Really, really interesting, uh,
00:23:19 --> 00:23:21 uh, really interesting, um, results there.
00:23:22 --> 00:23:24 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, absolutely. And, and the pictures that
00:23:24 --> 00:23:27 they've gathered are spectacular. It looks
00:23:27 --> 00:23:27 amazing.
00:23:27 --> 00:23:30 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, yeah, it does. It's quite uh,
00:23:30 --> 00:23:32 extraordinary. Uh, there's a quote from uh,
00:23:32 --> 00:23:35 Janet Drew, who I won't say I
00:23:35 --> 00:23:37 know, but I'd certainly have met her a few
00:23:37 --> 00:23:39 times back in the day. Uh, she's one of the
00:23:39 --> 00:23:42 studies, co authors, University, uh, College
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44 London. Uh, said says we,
00:23:45 --> 00:23:47 this is in a press release. Uh, we definitely
00:23:47 --> 00:23:49 need to know more particularly whether any
00:23:49 --> 00:23:52 other chemical elements coexist with the
00:23:52 --> 00:23:55 newly detected iron, as would probably
00:23:55 --> 00:23:57 tell us the right class of model to pursue.
00:23:57 --> 00:24:00 Um, in other words, um, whether it was
00:24:00 --> 00:24:02 ejected from the star or a vaporized planet.
00:24:02 --> 00:24:04 Uh, right now we're missing this important
00:24:04 --> 00:24:07 information. So. Yep, really um, really
00:24:07 --> 00:24:08 interesting stuff. Yeah.
00:24:08 --> 00:24:11 Andrew Dunkley: And now that they've found it, they know what
00:24:11 --> 00:24:13 to look for. And they may well find that this
00:24:13 --> 00:24:16 has happened quite a few times, that you
00:24:16 --> 00:24:18 might even have one in your closet. You never
00:24:18 --> 00:24:20 know what's.
00:24:20 --> 00:24:23 Professor Fred Watson: What. Uh, is interesting to me and there's a,
00:24:23 --> 00:24:26 a, it's a tenuous link here, but um,
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 perhaps the most famous planetary nebula in
00:24:29 --> 00:24:31 the southern hemisphere and it's one that is
00:24:31 --> 00:24:34 very familiar. It's called the Helix Nebula.
00:24:34 --> 00:24:36 Beautiful. Again, a ring like structure.
00:24:37 --> 00:24:40 Uh, we just uh, yesterday I think,
00:24:40 --> 00:24:42 or the day before received some new images of
00:24:42 --> 00:24:45 that from the James Webb Space
00:24:45 --> 00:24:47 Telescope. Which are absolutely staggering.
00:24:48 --> 00:24:51 Uh, they show structure on the sort
00:24:51 --> 00:24:53 of inner edge of this bubble of gas which is
00:24:53 --> 00:24:56 what the Helix Nebula is as well. Uh, which
00:24:56 --> 00:24:58 is uh.
00:24:59 --> 00:25:01 It's unfathomable almost. What we're seeing
00:25:01 --> 00:25:03 is little bubbles of gas being stretched out
00:25:03 --> 00:25:06 into this myriad of fingers. It almost
00:25:06 --> 00:25:08 looks like a grassy paddock. It is quite
00:25:08 --> 00:25:10 extraordinary. It's well worth a look if you
00:25:10 --> 00:25:13 can find it Andrew. Uh, and I encourage our
00:25:13 --> 00:25:15 uh, listeners and viewers to look for the
00:25:15 --> 00:25:18 James Webb Telescope image of the ring of the
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20 Helix Nebula just uh, released.
00:25:20 --> 00:25:23 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, keep an eye on that. But if you uh,
00:25:23 --> 00:25:25 want to read about this particular iron bar
00:25:25 --> 00:25:28 discovery you can read it uh, on
00:25:29 --> 00:25:32 what is uh, the universetoday.com website
00:25:32 --> 00:25:34 or you can go to the paper which was
00:25:34 --> 00:25:36 published in the
00:25:37 --> 00:25:40 Royal Astronomical Society Monthly Notices
00:25:40 --> 00:25:42 of. We could say it the other way around and
00:25:42 --> 00:25:44 you'd be right. Uh, yeah, um,
00:25:46 --> 00:25:48 but pictures uh, are spectacular in
00:25:48 --> 00:25:50 themselves. But the mystery itself is uh, is
00:25:50 --> 00:25:53 quite um, quite extraordinary. You're
00:25:53 --> 00:25:56 listening to Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley
00:25:56 --> 00:25:58 and Professor Fred Watson.
00:26:00 --> 00:26:02 Professor Fred Watson: Okay, we checked all four systems.
00:26:03 --> 00:26:06 Andrew Dunkley: Space Nuts, our ah, final yarn.
00:26:06 --> 00:26:08 Fred uh, takes us into
00:26:09 --> 00:26:11 uh a bit of a mystery land. Um,
00:26:12 --> 00:26:14 something deadly that could be important in
00:26:14 --> 00:26:17 the origin of life. Uh and if
00:26:17 --> 00:26:20 you would ask people what is deadly to
00:26:20 --> 00:26:23 human life and life in general, um, you
00:26:23 --> 00:26:26 would come up with a few well known
00:26:26 --> 00:26:29 um, things including hydrogen
00:26:29 --> 00:26:32 cyanide. And that is the topic of the
00:26:32 --> 00:26:32 discussion.
00:26:34 --> 00:26:35 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right.
00:26:35 --> 00:26:38 Um, now I ah, preface this discussion
00:26:38 --> 00:26:39 with something that you and all our listeners
00:26:39 --> 00:26:42 know already and that is that I'm no chemist
00:26:42 --> 00:26:44 and certainly no um, biochemist
00:26:45 --> 00:26:47 but um, this is a. Yeah it's a really
00:26:47 --> 00:26:50 interesting uh, study um,
00:26:50 --> 00:26:52 that um, I think comes from Swedish uh,
00:26:54 --> 00:26:56 Swedish scientists. Uh and
00:26:57 --> 00:26:58 it's, it's about
00:27:00 --> 00:27:02 hyd. Hydrogen cyanide as a
00:27:02 --> 00:27:05 molecule. Hcn. It's a chemical formula,
00:27:06 --> 00:27:08 um which we know occurs uh
00:27:08 --> 00:27:10 commonly in space. It's one of these
00:27:10 --> 00:27:13 molecules that seems to be readily formed
00:27:13 --> 00:27:16 um in the uh, coldness of space.
00:27:16 --> 00:27:18 So we find it for example in comets.
00:27:19 --> 00:27:21 Um, and that's one of the reasons why.
00:27:22 --> 00:27:25 Excuse me. There was panic in 1910, um
00:27:25 --> 00:27:27 when it was known that there was hydrogen
00:27:27 --> 00:27:30 cyanide in the tail of Comet Hallie. And uh,
00:27:30 --> 00:27:32 the Earth was going to pass through the tail.
00:27:32 --> 00:27:34 And so um, uh, I think all these
00:27:34 --> 00:27:37 uh, quack uh chemists
00:27:37 --> 00:27:40 uh made up their potions to stop you
00:27:40 --> 00:27:43 being poisoned by hydrogen cyanide. The fact
00:27:43 --> 00:27:46 that it's very, very rarefied
00:27:46 --> 00:27:48 gas wasn't something that impinged on their,
00:27:49 --> 00:27:51 on their consciousness. They just made money
00:27:51 --> 00:27:53 out of it. Yeah, uh, anyway it's in comets,
00:27:53 --> 00:27:56 uh, it's in clouds of uh,
00:27:56 --> 00:27:58 interstellar gas and dust. Uh, it's also
00:27:58 --> 00:28:01 present in large amounts actually as an
00:28:01 --> 00:28:04 ice in the atmosphere of Titan,
00:28:04 --> 00:28:06 Saturn's moon Titan. And
00:28:07 --> 00:28:10 um, it's um, not only on
00:28:10 --> 00:28:12 the atmosphere but it condenses out uh, on
00:28:12 --> 00:28:15 deposits onto the surface as well. And
00:28:15 --> 00:28:17 so the basically the
00:28:18 --> 00:28:20 link the rocks kids don't lick the rocks
00:28:22 --> 00:28:23 and don't breathe the atmosphere
00:28:25 --> 00:28:27 uh which you wouldn't want to anyway um
00:28:27 --> 00:28:30 because it's pretty horrible. But um, the.
00:28:30 --> 00:28:33 So, so that has led scientists to
00:28:33 --> 00:28:35 look more closely at ah, the
00:28:36 --> 00:28:38 chemistry uh and sort of
00:28:38 --> 00:28:41 physics as well of um,
00:28:41 --> 00:28:44 hydrogen cyanide. And in particular
00:28:44 --> 00:28:47 what they found is that it
00:28:47 --> 00:28:48 has essentially
00:28:49 --> 00:28:52 electrostatic properties that
00:28:52 --> 00:28:54 um, may encourage
00:28:55 --> 00:28:58 uh, it to assist with the
00:28:58 --> 00:29:01 formation of other molecules. It's apparently
00:29:01 --> 00:29:03 got really strong
00:29:03 --> 00:29:06 electric fields at the
00:29:06 --> 00:29:09 ends of ah, a solid crystal
00:29:09 --> 00:29:12 of hydrogen cyanide. Um and
00:29:12 --> 00:29:14 what they're saying is that that might be a
00:29:14 --> 00:29:17 property that would allow this
00:29:17 --> 00:29:20 deadly chemical nevertheless to assist
00:29:21 --> 00:29:24 in the you know the, the building
00:29:24 --> 00:29:26 up of uh, prebiotic
00:29:26 --> 00:29:29 molecules, the um, organic molecules that
00:29:29 --> 00:29:32 we think um, are
00:29:33 --> 00:29:35 basically the uh, the building blocks of
00:29:35 --> 00:29:36 life. Um
00:29:40 --> 00:29:42 so um, it's really
00:29:43 --> 00:29:46 a uh, really interesting piece uh, of
00:29:46 --> 00:29:47 work that
00:29:48 --> 00:29:51 huh these authors
00:29:51 --> 00:29:53 have highlighted that maybe uh,
00:29:54 --> 00:29:57 this thing that to us is anathema, hydrogen
00:29:57 --> 00:29:59 cyanide, maybe it's the reason why we're
00:29:59 --> 00:30:02 here, uh because of reactions that might have
00:30:02 --> 00:30:04 taken place. And of course that has
00:30:04 --> 00:30:06 um, some interesting uh,
00:30:07 --> 00:30:10 implications for Titan if it's commonplace on
00:30:10 --> 00:30:13 Titan. Titan's a world that we think
00:30:13 --> 00:30:15 could harbor life uh
00:30:16 --> 00:30:18 maybe in its uh, under ice
00:30:18 --> 00:30:21 oceans. It's an ice world like many of the
00:30:21 --> 00:30:23 other uh satellites of the outer planets, but
00:30:23 --> 00:30:25 also has these seas and lakes of
00:30:26 --> 00:30:28 liquid ethane and methane. Um, you know,
00:30:28 --> 00:30:31 maybe there are reactions going on
00:30:31 --> 00:30:34 in there that involve hydrogen cyanide that
00:30:34 --> 00:30:37 might have created uh, uh organisms that
00:30:37 --> 00:30:39 use these um, basically these
00:30:40 --> 00:30:43 um, liquefied natural gases which is
00:30:43 --> 00:30:45 what they are as their working fluid. Who
00:30:45 --> 00:30:46 knows?
00:30:46 --> 00:30:49 Andrew Dunkley: Well and that's something we've talked about
00:30:49 --> 00:30:51 before because we you know when you, we think
00:30:51 --> 00:30:53 of life, we, we look at ourselves, carbon
00:30:53 --> 00:30:56 based life forms that breathe oxygen and you
00:30:56 --> 00:30:59 know, and, and have a heavy reliance on
00:30:59 --> 00:31:02 water. But uh, why does it just
00:31:02 --> 00:31:04 have to be that uh, why can't
00:31:05 --> 00:31:07 life develop in an environment that we would
00:31:07 --> 00:31:10 find toxic and
00:31:10 --> 00:31:13 well basically hostile. But
00:31:13 --> 00:31:16 if you can create the catalyst for Life on
00:31:16 --> 00:31:19 a world like Titan. Why couldn't it develop
00:31:19 --> 00:31:21 independently as a totally different life
00:31:21 --> 00:31:22 form?
00:31:22 --> 00:31:24 Professor Fred Watson: Something quite different. That's right. And,
00:31:24 --> 00:31:25 um, you know, that raises the question, how
00:31:25 --> 00:31:28 do you recognize that it's actually life if
00:31:28 --> 00:31:31 it's so different from, from our, our
00:31:31 --> 00:31:33 living organisms? Who. Yeah, well, we
00:31:33 --> 00:31:35 don't really have a proper definition of what
00:31:35 --> 00:31:36 life is.
00:31:36 --> 00:31:38 Andrew Dunkley: No, no. And you, you.
00:31:38 --> 00:31:39 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:31:39 --> 00:31:41 Andrew Dunkley: Some people argue that a
00:31:41 --> 00:31:44 virus isn't a life form.
00:31:44 --> 00:31:44 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:31:45 --> 00:31:47 Andrew Dunkley: So is, is a, is a virus life?
00:31:49 --> 00:31:51 I've seen that argument tossed around a few
00:31:51 --> 00:31:54 times. So what debate
00:31:54 --> 00:31:54 rages?
00:31:55 --> 00:31:58 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. A definition that I think NASA uses
00:31:58 --> 00:32:01 from time to time is a living organism is a,
00:32:01 --> 00:32:04 uh, self sustaining, self
00:32:04 --> 00:32:07 replicating organism capable of
00:32:07 --> 00:32:09 Darwinian evolution. And
00:32:09 --> 00:32:12 I actually think a virus would satisfy that.
00:32:12 --> 00:32:15 Andrew Dunkley: I think it would. And it does it fast.
00:32:15 --> 00:32:17 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. And it does. And I think I've got one
00:32:17 --> 00:32:19 at the moment, which is why I feel so crook
00:32:19 --> 00:32:20 this time.
00:32:21 --> 00:32:23 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, they hang on, don't they?
00:32:23 --> 00:32:24 Professor Fred Watson: They do.
00:32:24 --> 00:32:25 Andrew Dunkley: Well, you know that, that's, that's the
00:32:25 --> 00:32:28 natural order, isn't it, in the fight
00:32:28 --> 00:32:29 for continuity?
00:32:30 --> 00:32:32 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, that's what a virus does. Yeah.
00:32:33 --> 00:32:35 Andrew Dunkley: All right. Very interesting story. And,
00:32:36 --> 00:32:38 uh, don't go to the chemist asking for
00:32:38 --> 00:32:40 hydrogen cyanide because you want to, you
00:32:40 --> 00:32:42 know, revive a cat or something. Don't. It
00:32:42 --> 00:32:43 doesn't work.
00:32:45 --> 00:32:47 Professor Fred Watson: Because, you know, it's got, um, interesting
00:32:47 --> 00:32:49 electrical properties. It would be a good
00:32:49 --> 00:32:51 excuse, wouldn't it? Oh, yes. Well, we'll
00:32:51 --> 00:32:53 sell you some if that's the case. Yes, yes,
00:32:53 --> 00:32:54 why not? Yeah.
00:32:55 --> 00:32:57 Andrew Dunkley: I don't think you could get it very easily,
00:32:57 --> 00:32:57 could you?
00:32:58 --> 00:33:00 Professor Fred Watson: I don't know. You'd get. I don't want any,
00:33:00 --> 00:33:03 but I don't know, you'd, uh, have to go to.
00:33:03 --> 00:33:05 Andrew Dunkley: An illegal arms dealer or something, I think.
00:33:05 --> 00:33:06 Professor Fred Watson: But yes.
00:33:07 --> 00:33:09 Andrew Dunkley: Anyway, if you want to read about that, it's
00:33:09 --> 00:33:11 uh, in, uh, the universe
00:33:11 --> 00:33:14 today.com website. Uh, and
00:33:14 --> 00:33:16 I think there's probably a paper that I have
00:33:16 --> 00:33:19 overlooked where it's been published. But,
00:33:19 --> 00:33:21 um, uh, or you could go to the
00:33:21 --> 00:33:24 ACS.org website.
00:33:24 --> 00:33:26 Uh, ACS Central Science is where you'll find
00:33:26 --> 00:33:29 the article. Um, we're just
00:33:29 --> 00:33:31 about done, Fred.
00:33:31 --> 00:33:34 Professor Fred Watson: Thank you very much. You're
00:33:34 --> 00:33:35 welcome, Andrew. And, uh, thank you for
00:33:35 --> 00:33:38 having me. As always. It's a pleasure.
00:33:38 --> 00:33:41 Andrew Dunkley: It is good fun. We really enjoy ourselves and
00:33:41 --> 00:33:42 hopefully the audience does too. They've been
00:33:42 --> 00:33:45 sticking with us for a good many years now,
00:33:45 --> 00:33:47 which we greatly appreciate. And, uh, between
00:33:47 --> 00:33:49 shows, don't forget to visit us on social
00:33:49 --> 00:33:52 media, Facebook, Instagram. We might pop
00:33:52 --> 00:33:54 up in other places that I'm unaware of. I
00:33:54 --> 00:33:57 don't know. Um, we'll have to go and lean on
00:33:57 --> 00:33:59 an iron bar and have a few drinks and figure
00:33:59 --> 00:34:01 it out. And, um,
00:34:02 --> 00:34:04 on our website, you can also, uh, look around
00:34:04 --> 00:34:07 at the shop or the Astronomy Daily Newsfeed
00:34:07 --> 00:34:09 if you want to sign up for that. There's
00:34:09 --> 00:34:11 plenty to do on, on the website, so, uh,
00:34:11 --> 00:34:13 check it out. Uh, and thanks to Huw in the
00:34:13 --> 00:34:15 studio, who couldn't be with us today.
00:34:15 --> 00:34:16 We were talking about the weather earlier,
00:34:16 --> 00:34:18 Fred, and, um, I don't know if you know this,
00:34:18 --> 00:34:20 but Huw's from New Zealand, so once the
00:34:20 --> 00:34:23 temperature hits 6 degrees, it's way too hot
00:34:23 --> 00:34:25 for him to go outside. So that's why he can't
00:34:25 --> 00:34:28 be with us today. And from me, Andrew
00:34:28 --> 00:34:29 Dunkley, thanks for your company. We'll catch
00:34:29 --> 00:34:32 you on the next episode of Space Nuts.
00:34:32 --> 00:34:32 Professor Fred Watson: Bye.
00:34:32 --> 00:34:35 Andrew Dunkley: Bye. You'll be listening to
00:34:35 --> 00:34:37 the Space Nuts podcast,
00:34:38 --> 00:34:41 available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
00:34:41 --> 00:34:44 iHeartRadio or your favorite podcast
00:34:44 --> 00:34:46 player. You can also stream on
00:34:46 --> 00:34:49 demand@bytes.com. this has been another
00:34:49 --> 00:34:52 quality podcast production from bytes.um
00:34:52 --> 00:34:52 com.