#454: Universe's Speed Limits, Triple Star Systems & CME Mysteries

Hi there, Thanks for joining us on a Q and A edition of Space Nuts. My name is Andrew Uncley, your host. Always good to have your company. And that was Fread's chair coming up in this episode. You're not supposed to be on yet. Coming up with this episode, what if the expansion of the universe slowed down? Somebody wants to know. We've also got a triple headed question from Chris about three Sun systems merging black holes and attraction, and we'll be answering a question about whether or not we've collected matter from the coronal mass ejection, not the a coronal mass ejection, because they happen a lot, and if we've got time, we'll throw in another one, but we'll work with what we've got in this Q and A edition of Space Nuts. Fifteen, Channel ten nine Ignition Space Nuts or three two. Space Nurse. When I bought it Neil Good, I didn't realize he was here. He's so quiet. He's Professor Fred. What's on? Hello Fred? I apologize for my creaking chair, explained the chair was here, but I wasn't. Well. Yes, no, there it is. Mine doesn't do that, but the microphone does. Don't think. No, it's not doing it now. It's like taking a car to the mechanic. Oh, I've got this noise. No you haven't. Yeah, I think. Maybe I'll try a w D fourty or something. Yes, and it's good stuff that I put it on my breakfast. Now, let's let's get into some questions and we've got it. We've got a few here. I think we'll start off with Dave from the beautiful town of Inverrel in northwestern New South Wales, which is known for its gems. Gem fossicking very popular up there, Hi, Andrew and Fred. Previously on the show, you've discussed how the universe is expanding faster than the speed of light. Some theories propose this expansion may continue, while others suggest the expansion might eventually slow down. If the latter is correct, could the expansion of the universe slow down to less than the speed of light, therefore allowing light to overtake the edge of the universe? Is this possible and could light exist outside the universe? Day from Inverurrell. I've got a feeling you're going to talk about the speed of the expansion of the universe because it was faster than the spread of light. Initially, but then it did slow down, didn't it. Yeah, it's a difficult one to discuss this because when you talk about the expansion of the universe being faster than the speed of light, what do you mean. What you might mean is that two objects a certain distance apart moving away from each other faster than the speed of light, so that so that one will never see the other. And that's the best way to think of it. You're quite right that we think that during the first tent to minus thirty three of a second or thereabouts, a tiny, tiny length of time at the beginning of the universe, after immediately after the Big Bang, we think the expansion was colossal. That it, you know, the universe changed shape by our changed size by ten to the power fifteen ten to the minus thirty three of a second, what we call the inflation period. We're always undername things here, and certainly parts of you know, the universe. Bits of the universe would have separated from other bits that faster than the speed of light, which doesn't contravene special relativity, as we've said before, because the universe can do anything it likes. What we know is that things can't travel through the universe faster than the speed of light, so that theory that the universe might collapse in on itself was really knocked on the head in nineteen ninety eight with the discovery of the accelerated expansion of the universe by my colleague Branch Bitt here in Australia and others are overseas in the United States in fact, so that basically said, no, we don't think the universe is going to collapse an anymore. But in a way we're already in the situation that Chris describes because the most distant thing we can see, which is the cosmic microwave background radiation, and that is a distance you know, effectively a thirteen point eight billion years or look back time of thirteen point eight billion years, that is not receding from us fastened the speed of light, and in fact it's receding from us at the speed of light, and we can still see it. And of course everything between us and that is stuff that is nearer than the cosmic microwave background radiation. So by definition all that stuff is not moving at the speed of light, we can see it. So it's all about horizons, what you can see and what you can't see. And the horizon that really limits our visibility now is the flash of the Big Bang. You're looking so far back in time that you're seeing that wall of radiation. It's now microwave radiation, hence the name the cosmic microwave background radiation, and it's traveling away from us. Yes, at the speed of light. There you go. And he also wanted to know if light could exist outside our universe. That's I guess that's a speculator. Yeah. Yeah, we really don't know much about the outside of the universe, because universe by definition is everything that we can perceive or think about. But yes, there are people who think that I was might be just one of many universes, maybe were immersed in a higher dimensional void, which would perhaps would have light. It might be more appropriate to think, though, that outside the universe might not have light, but might have gravity, because I think you and I have talked about this before. The force of gravity compared with the other fundamental forces in the universe, and that's electromagnetic force and the strong and weak nuclear forces, it's hundreds of billions of times weaker. The force of gravity is much much, much weaker, and some people speculate that that's because it leaks out of our universe space between them. Right, Gosh, wouldn't you love to figure out what's they out there? Go out there and it would answer so many questions, I think. But all we can do is speculate and wonder, and you know, we can't even see past certain parts of the universe. So no, no, we've got no idea. Really, it could be just you know, some kind of void, or could be a used car sales lot for all we know. It's yes, it is. It called the void in Doctor Who. I remember Michael Day. Yeah, maybe that's what snapped into my brain. Yeah, scientists call it the bulk. Actually, ah right, cosmology physics name is the bulk, the bulk, it's the void for doctor Who, Doctor Who? Yes, indeed, Okay, Dave, thanks for your question. I hope we managed to help you out there. Let's go to our next question. This is this is a big question. Chris has never asked us a question before, so he's asked basically eight years worth of questions in one hit. Take it away, Chris and he Professor Watson. My name is Christopher Blue. I'm coming from coming to from Hey. You go to North Carolina and the United States of America. I love you guys podcasts. I work as an infectious disease technologist, so I'm not allowed to touch my phone. So what I do is I listened to your podcast or eight hours a day, a days a week, and I loved it. I'm not want to change anything. I actually he's speaking to you from the past. I'm on episode two thirty seven, and I held held off on asking questions this entire time because I asked you all say it could be a question that was already answered, but I just defined, you know, to heck with that. I'm just ask a question anyway, moving on, don't have a lot of time. Don't want to take up your time either. But if there was a planetary system that orbited or a future if there was a plan in that or orbited three suns. You know how some systems have binary systems and possible to have three three sons. And if that was the case, is it. Possible for those funds to go into sysgy and cause something something like the gravity from all three of those sons added up would lift them off the planet. I actually saw that in this show called three Body Problem. If you haven't seen. It's on Netflix, The Great Show. You will love it. Also, this is all based on my very small understanding cut off you God's favorite subject, black holes. But black holes are a singularity, infinitely small point in space, and black holes can merge with those singularities, become one one singularity or. Do they collide? And if they collide, would that be like the Big Bang? Okay, but now I just wanted to know that. And last question, I promise for now if he if everything has an attraction, all planets have an attraction, would everything when space be attracted towards if nothing else in space had that attraction besides Earth with all the planets and everything out there, just come towards Earth almost like a holing beacon and crash into it. But that's all my questions from now. Like I said, love you guys podcast, I really appreciate it. Actually it actually urged me to get back into college. I told myself I was never going back, but inspired me to go back. And I do appreciate it. So you guys take it easy. And have a great day. USA sign and off. Thank you Chris. Wow, that was a lot. I was gobsmacked that you went back to college because of us. I'm humbled by that. Fred, what do you think? Yeah, it's great. It's just great to hear it, Chris. And good luck with the way it's going, all the studies and everything, and keep up the good work with infectious disease technology. That's yes, So he can't touch his phone while he's so he listens to us. Yeah, well, oh look there's a terrible disease. Oh no, that was just Fred. I think you're the I think you're the one with the terrible. I've got yes, super pollination, that's what it's called, super pollination. That could be a thing. Now. Chris is questions three different questions. The first one is a triple header in itself a three sun system. What sort of a problem would a planet have orbiting a three sun system? And yes, he mentioned the TV series three Body Problem, which is based on a book by a Chinese writer. I still haven't finished the first book. It's a trilogy, and I'm struggling with it because he's really it's a difficult read. They've turned it into a fabulous TV show which is very accurate compared to the book, which I'm pleased to see so far. But Yeah, the problem in the TV series is you've got a planet that's trying to evolve and intelligent life keeps developing, but then being destroyed by the problem of trying to survive in a three sun system. It just can't maintain equilibrium, I suppose would be the way to describe it. Is that a real thing or are they just making it up? No, I was going to say, because I, as you know, I watched the three Body problem. But as I was listening to Chris's question, though, I thought this would not be stable. A planet orbusing three stars which were themselves orbitsing their common center of mass almost certainly would be very destructive from a gravitational point of view. That it wouldn't be a stable situation. And so I think Chris's question is first question, what if they all lined up in what we call Sissygy. Yeah, that would certainly provide an interesting bit of gravitational force on the on the poor planet. If that was also in Sissigy with these three stars, you might expect very very intense gravitational effects which are caused by one side of the planet getting pulled more than the other. So so it might, you know, if it was near enough, it might even get spaghettified, like you get when you get too near a black hole. So yes, really quite quite damaging, I think, but it's possible it could happen. We've we've covered stories before of planets both orbiting the individual members of a binary star system, a pair of stars, or the whole thing, and we've commented before, I think on how unstable though some of those orbits must be, just because the complex and gravitational pools. Yeah, well, they do portray the issues very well in that TV series three Body Problem, And yes, they do actually have scenes of people being lifted off the ground because of the gravitational effects of the stars that are controlling this planet's fate. Unfortunately, it's very mad for the people, very bad for the well. I think it would be. Yeah, if you were going to be lifted off the ground, you'd almost certainly get spaghetti fight. I think, Yeah, it's pretty messed up. Chris's next question was about merging black holes. What basically happens? Do they become one? Do they collide? Yes? What they do? Is it like a mini Big Bang? Well we know it causes gravitational waves, so yeah, it does make a hell of a bang that makes this sound. Yes, so yeah, but just fill in the blacks for us. Yes, that you're quite right. That's the that's a fairly good impersonation of the of the sound of a or of a grow black hole merger captured by LIGO, which is looking at audio frequency gravitational waves and then playing them through a loud speaker, and you do you get them up where it sort of mergers together, and that bit at the end is where the black holes actually merge. So they do combine into one single black hole of actually a bit less than twice the mass of the individual ones, because some of that mass is lost as energy going into the gravitational waves, which are very energy hungry. And that's because space is so rigid. It's like say text, yes, yeah. That's right. You can't have a merger where they're paying the text to. Paying the tax, yeah, the gravitational tax. So what happens is not a mini big bang. It's quite toedate. Actually it is. The has explained that the frequency of the the gravitational waves goes up because these things are spinning ever closer together and then they emerge and there is something called the ring down that occurs afterwards, and I think that's just the sort of vibration of the of the space around it as it settles back down to not having any kind of gravitational waves pass it through it. So the ring down is the the end of the the end of the process, the end of the collision. But it's a it's a downward energy thing rather than an upward energy thing, which you know a big band would be. And yeah, finally, you know. I just wanted to sort of metaphorically describe that. Then, So emerging black two emerging black holes would be more like Fred and Ginger rather than Donald and Camilla. Yeah, yeah, probably, yeah, yeah, fair enough. They In fact, Fred and Ginger is probably a good analoge because there's a lot of spinning involved. Yes, done, cheek to cheek, Yes, Attraction attraction, well, there were just what we've been talking about. So it's hard to imagine how the Earth could attract things without the other things attracting Earth, because it's a mutual process. Is gravitation, you can't switch it off just for one object and not the others. But yes, if the Earth was the only gravitating body in the Solar System and everything else I no gravity at all, It probably would collect everything else. Yes, the situations emerging black. Holes, we just end up with one giant planet of some kind. It would be a bit of That would be a bit of a mess too. Yes, yes, so yes, Chris, that would happen. That would happen. All right, great to hear from you, Chris. Enjoy your infectious diseases and college. Just don't put the two together. Wouldn't be pretty. But thanks for sending a question in Thanks for supporting space. That's space butts. One final question, Fred. This one comes from Lee, who is in Canada. Hello, space nutters. I'm curious if we have ever been able to collect CME samples from the Sun. That is, can a coronal mass ejection have enough velocity to escape the Sun's orbit. I expect it would cool down significantly and possibly arrive at Earth as any other asteroid. Have we ever collected this and what can we learn? Thanks and keep up the good work. Lee from Canada. Okay, look, these things hit us all the time, don't they, Fred, don't do them? Yeah, not so much direct hit type of stuff, but the after effect with the. Solar Yeah, and it is the coronal ejection is exactly what it sounds like. It's gas being expelled. It's actually a plasma coming off the Sun. That plasma is an electrified gas. It comes off the Sun at high velocity a million kilometers an hour or thereabouts. Probably actually quite a lot faster than that when I think about it. It takes a few days to reach the Earth, and when it does, we're showered with the sub atomic particles. So in that sense, the Earth has collected CMEs. They don't solidify in anyway. They are still sub atomic particles that remain in that state, electrified and traveling at high velocity. And it's when they interact with the upper atmosphere of the Earth that we see the rory the Northern and Southern lights, as these highly energetic particles, you know, sort of energize the atoms of the Earth, so that when they become de energized they actually ready at light and we see the Northern lights. So the Northern lights, I guess, are the best thing we've got for collecting CMEs. It also interferes with the electronics of satellites and things of that sort should but once again it's on the sub atomic level, rather solid lumps of stuff. So in terms of collecting them physically, not on because they are sub atomic path fills. That's right, they just go through whatever it tried to need a really good net to be out all that. Yeah, well the nets our magnetic field, I suppose. Yes, but that's right. That that is what you know, divert some round the poles of the Earth, which is why we see the aurora so strongly. That. Yeah, indeed, all right, thank you Lee. Hope that helped you with your question. If you've got a question for us, go to our website. It's a new look website. I didn't realize that until Hugh told me, but yeah, it's just slightly changed in design. So you can visit Space Nuts podcast or Commo space nuts dot io, send us text audio questions through the AMA. Don't forget to leave reviews about the Space Nuts podcast. We always love to hear about what you think reviews through whatever platform you use. And Fred, thank you very much. Always a pleasure. So it was a pleasure talking to you too, Andrew, thank you. The first person that's ever said that. Thank you, Fred. We'll see you next time. Yeah, that sounds good. And thanks to hear in the studio. For being quiet, not bothering us, and from me Andrew Duckley, thanks for your company. We'll see you very soon on another episode of Space Nuts. Bye bye, Space Nuts. You'll be listening to the Space Nuts podcast. Available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or your favorite podcast player. You can also stream on demand at bides dot com. This has been another quality podcast production from nights dot com.